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June 20, 2006
Rock, Paper, Scissors
Resident Druid that I am, even I have a problem with this.
Participants at this summer's national meeting of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) will be asked to ratify a paper that says the Trinity is female.
The 217th General Assembly will be asked to ratify the 40-page report, "God's Love Overflowing," which suggests "Mother, Child and Womb" as terms equally appropriate to "Father, Son and Holy Spirit.""In recent years new ways of speaking of the Trinity in the prayer and theology of the church have been proposed," the report states. "Some of these proposals are helpful; some are unsatisfactory. What must be clear is that we cannot distinguish the persons of the Trinity simply by assigning different attributes or acts to each of the persons. The divine attributes are held in common by all three persons: all are holy, all are loving, all are wise and powerful. Similarly, an action of God cannot be restricted to one of the three persons. All of the acts of the triune God are indivisible."
..."In praising the triune God we use biblical language, both classic - Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, and surprising - Mother, Child, and Womb," the report says. "We may use words that speaks of the inner relations of the Godhead - Lover, Beloved, Love, and those that speak of the loving activity of the Three among us - Creator, Savior, Sanctifier, Rock, Redeemer, Friend, King of Glory, Prince of Peace, Spirit of Love."
According to an AP report this morning (which I canNOT find online), the delegates voted yesterday to "receive" this policy paper "on gender-inclusive language for the Trinity, a step short of approving it".
"This does not alter the church's theological position, but provides an educational resource to enhance the spiritual life of our membership," legislative committee chair Nancy Olthoff, an Iowa laywoman, said during Monday's debate on the Trinity.
Church officials get to propose 'experimental liturgies with alternative phrasings for the Trinity'. In my jaundiced eye, that's all well and good, inclusive and cutting edge but...anything that leaves "Son" out of it sort of defeats the whole point of "Christian", does it not? Jesus was a real, LIVE person, not a "fill-in-the-blank" concept.
UPDATE HAH! The AP link, thanks to Bingley's beady eyes and Mark in Mexico. Now, who the hell is St. Athanasius?
Posted by tree hugging sister at June 20, 2006 11:24 AM
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Comments
And hence, every day my departure from the Presbyterian church makes more and more sense.
Posted by: Robb Allen at June 20, 2006 11:25 AM
The national leadership is so out of touch with the membership...and scripture. Everytime the General Assembly meets it's an embarassing time to be a Presbyterian.
At least it looks like they are backing away from the Israel Divestment crap from last time.
Posted by: Mr. Bingley at June 20, 2006 11:30 AM
Well, if my church followed the General Assembly too closely I'd be with you, Robb.
Posted by: Mr. Bingley at June 20, 2006 11:35 AM
"We do NOT refer to the Holy Trinity as 'Big Daddy, Junior and The Spook', young man!"
Posted by: mojo at June 20, 2006 11:40 AM
I think the whole thing's amazing. So who went to the party from your church this year, Bingley? Are you going to cast the first stone when they get back?
And then I think you need to volunteer to go to the next one.
Posted by: tree hugging sister at June 20, 2006 11:45 AM
No, there's a couple of layers to go between my church and the national level. We have a representative on our Presbytery, and then one or two folks from there go the General Assembly.
Shockingly I was not chosen to be a delegate (in part because I didn't run...but not a very large part).
No, I won't cast stones, as it's too typical and not surprising. The touchy-feely radicals always seem to end up on the governing bodies.
Posted by: Mr. Bingley at June 20, 2006 12:04 PM
We atheists are laughing at this! :)
It's only 1500 years of constantly drumming the "father, son, and holy ghost(spirit)" into the culture that makes it not already sound absurd. And a few wars to enforce it. And the banishment and destruction of the Aryans. And a few more wars. None of which makes the trinity any more logical.
So, despite the logical dissonance at equating "womb" with "holy spirit," it's still just as whacky before and after to me!
Posted by: Mike Rentner at June 20, 2006 12:44 PM
"None of which makes the trinity any more logical."
Fascinating.
Posted by: Dan Collins at June 20, 2006 12:56 PM
Mike, Mike, Mike ~ a logical person who's even completely disinterested in religious organizations of any sort has to acknowledge "Father, Son, Holy Spirit" as pretty much the basis for the whole 'Christian' thing. I guess you could argue descriptive terms about the former or the latter, but Jesus was a FACT, whether one believes he was the Saviour or not. And for politically correct, hip with the times 'Christians' to remove him from the equation? Whacky doesn't begin to cover it.
'Authentic frontier gibberish' might.
Posted by: tree hugging sister at June 20, 2006 01:02 PM
Yikes. Sometimes it pays to be a Southern Baptist, even though we have our own sort of.....interesting members/ideas, shall we say.
Posted by: Crusader at June 20, 2006 01:25 PM
The more I think about it, the more I think the ancients had the right idea with polytheism.
Posted by: KG at June 20, 2006 01:37 PM
Someday I'll get all of my lunch hours back from you guys. Manual trackback.
Posted by: Nightfly at June 20, 2006 01:38 PM
PS to KG - or, you could agree with CS Lewis that the polytheists had the right question but the wrong answer. =)
Posted by: Nightfly at June 20, 2006 01:39 PM
P.S.: To mojo ~ hiLARIOUS!!
Posted by: tree hugging sister at June 20, 2006 01:45 PM
All I can think of 'Fly is gangsta acta Eddie G..."Yeah, see, we're gonna make dis cow, see...a golden calf, see...yeah"
Posted by: Mr. Bingley at June 20, 2006 01:46 PM
THS, I never said Jesus didn't exist and I certainly understand the importance of the Trinity in the modern (i.e., post circa 300-400AD or thereabouts) version of Christianity, but the Trinity is a pretty far fetched and contrived concept. It was a very long reach to get from Sermon on the Mount and other nice stuff about Christianity, to the Trinity. It's a theological construct designed to solve a theological dilemma that only existed in the minds of a few.
There's a reason they fought so many wars about it, it's because it doesn't make much sense except to people who were willing to destroy others over their idea. The idea that someone wants to change the name is blasphemous to those that killed so many people over it before.
So, in a way, I'm kind of happy that people are now free to change the concepts of the Trinity without being boiled alive, but it still doesn't make much sense before or after.
Posted by: Mike Rentner at June 20, 2006 01:57 PM
the polytheists had the right question but the wrong answer.
Rocks and trees, people. Rocks and trees.
Oh. And chickens for sacrificing, but basically just rocks and trees. It's much simpler.
Or it was until cellulite showed up.
Posted by: tree hugging sister at June 20, 2006 01:57 PM
Pardon me while I take a Strange Interlude with Gamble Rogers...
...[he] walks by the Unitarian Church. That's the one with the lightning rod on the steeple. Agamemnon Jones says those Unitarians trust the Almighty in all things except electricity...No reason, I just had nothing substantial to add to the discussion.
Posted by: Ken Summers at June 20, 2006 02:10 PM