The Coalition of the Swilling

Hmm. Sticky one. If someone is trespassing, do you have the right to detain them by force? Usually not. It's a civil issue. Mostly the law wants you to sue them for damages. However, I would guess that in such a case of repeated and on going damage to his property (and trespass alone is damage) then he has an obligation to stop it. If he were to allow repeated trespass without taking action against it, he might suffer from an easement being created where he would no longer be allowed to stop people from using his land as a pathway.

The real problem is that we have so cracked down on immigration that people have to resort to more and more dangerous ways to get here. This desparation has led to a resurgence in slavery.

I wish we could end this war against immigrants. I see no reason why peaceful people shouldn't be allowed here liberally. These policies are only encouraging the more dangerous people to come.

Sure Skyler that's just what need in these economic times more non-English speaking, uneducated, no technical skill "peaceful" people strolling across the border. Aside from that, they are trespassing, it's not like he's rounding them up on federal land, it's his property. I don't see where we should be Mexico's dumping ground for it's poor.

Ditto my esteemed hubby's comments:

THEY ARE TRESPASSING on PRIVATE PROPERTY

Put this particular shoe on YOUR foot, Skyler ~ strange folks wandering through, say, your small condo backyard, using your water or grill, leaving it running, breaking your hose/faucet/heat dials, breaking down your privacy fence to get in/out at their leisure. etc. ad nauseum, not to mention wandering into your kitchen for a snack or to pick out something nice to take with them. Would you be turning a blind eye to what is in fact the invasion and destruction of your private property? (I'm not even mentioning the inherent danger involved ~ not every trespasser has a lily white heart.)

He has EVERY right in the world to nail these folks, illegal or NOT, and hold them for authorities. (They're lucky he's not invoking a castle doctrine if available.) And this STOOPID, completely bassackwards lawsuit is what helps fan the anti-illegal fires to begin with. How DARE they take HIM to task?!?! How DARE they? And yes, my freedom loving, tender heart says "Fuck them".

"The real problem is that we have so cracked down on immigration that people have to resort to more and more dangerous ways to get here. This desparation (sic) has led to a resurgence in slavery."

You have got to be kidding me. Did you even read the article? Or did you just type that with your jerking knee? As for us "cracking down on immigration," what makes you think that opening the borders to these mostly criminal hordes will do anything but send crime skyrocketing and put further strain on our welfare system? And what are these people fleeing -- an inability to make it in their own country? Do we really need people who can't make ends meet in fricking Mexico moving up here?

The only place where maybe we should at all relax immigration restrictions in when it comes to educated, intelligent, hardworking people from Europe and other hopelessly socialist dumps where ambition isn't rewarded. But the progressives who support "open borders" nonsense know that immigrants like that aren't interested in careers as underpaid nannies and groundskeepers, so that won't be done.

My grandparents were neither educated nor skilled when they escapted to this country from a dictatorship in Portugal more than 100 years ago. I'm glad they came. I hope more of them come. I suspect that your family was similar since they were Irish.

Letting educated and skilled people in makes them more competitive with me in finding work. I see no advantage to that.

If you're so pathetic that you can't compete with unskilled, uneducated, non-English speaking people, then I really have no pity for you at all. I'm going to root for them for bettering themselves every time.

As for the trespassing, I thought I was pretty clear that the man has an obligation, not just the right, to protect his property. Y'all are griping to me about agreeing with you. What's up with that?

"If you're so pathetic that you can't compete with unskilled, uneducated, non-English speaking people, then I really have no pity for you at all."

So, us natives should just learn how to live and raise a family on a salary that's usually less than minimum wage?
That, and the fact illegals don't really have any recourse against a business that decides to rook them is what makes illegals attractive as an unskilled labor force. That's what you want?

Furthermore, I think this immigration issue was dredged up and purposefully exploited by the Democrat party to drive a wedge into the Reagan coalition that has kept them out of power for a long time. It kept the focus off of national security and keeping the government small. These are the important issues. Immigration hysteria is a classic American xenophobic episode where we think that our way of life is at jeopardy from those scary furriners.

I don't care what language anyone speaks. I don't care what celebrations we have. I don't care what gods we pray to. I only care if we are free. That is our culture, that is what our nation is all about. Our freedom culture is under attack by an ancient muslim culture that has been in a dark age for several hundred years. Islam is either in a resurgence or its death throes and it intends to destroy as much of our freedom as it can. The ancient war between Islam and Christendom has been resurrected as a war against freedom.

Against the backdrop of this attack on our culture of freedom, we allowed a ridiculous issue of xenophobia to divide the coalition that was fighting back. The combination of socialism, which made us pay for immigrants, and the subsequent increased attention to stopping mostly peaceful people from coming here, have created the problems this man has had to endure. If these immigrants could come here by simply showing a passport, they wouldn't have to behave so deesparately and criminally. If they don't find work, they would simply leave and go where there was work. But with socialism they are encouraged to stay, the extreme effort to get here makes them more willing to put up with hard times to avoid coming back later. Again, it is the government that makes the problem worse by taking action, which makes them want to take even more action, which makes it even worse, etc.

The answer, as is usual, is freedom.

"So, us natives should just learn how to live and raise a family on a salary that's usually less than minimum wage?"

If that's all you're worth, then yes. But you're worth more than that, I would think. It's up to you to succeed or not. If you are healthy and able, then I have no pity for those that refuse to make their lives better if they want to be better. Taanstafl.

Skyler, think for a second. It's not just that they are uneducated et al it's that most of them have no interest in getting educated or assimilating into America. Just get to that welfare state known as California. I don't know where you lived when you were in CA but we were in deepest darkest Santa Ana and witnessed first hand what was going on. We don't need immigrants sending money they do make to another country. And it's not so much that they compete with jobs, although they do drive down wages i.e. roofers after hurricane Ivan working for 10 bucks/hr, it's the services they suck up and quite frankly demand. I can't do that if I go to their country. It is about freedom, freedom to be an American and not a freeloader from another country. I don't care if they get here legally, bring em in, just follow our laws. Is that so much to ask?

Yes, it's about freedom. That means the free education that we are enslaved to pay for needs to stop. The answer is OUR freedom. And then we share our freedom with them. End the theft of our money, and then there's no reason to care.

Instead, we're using the politicians' theft of our money as an excuse for excluding them. It's a vicious circle. They take our money and give it to others, which makes us resent the others. That gives them the political clout to restrict them more and excuses taking our money.

What I'm trying to say is that the "conservative" stance has been to end socialism and big government. The "liberals" have succeeded in implementing socialism and are now exploiting it to divide the Reagan coalition by scaring people with immigration.

And the "conservatives" fell for it. They reacted hysterically about illegal immigrants. Instead of insisting on ending socialism, the real reason for objecting to immigrants, they lashed out at the immigrants themselves. This drew off a huge chunk of voters, needlessly. The republican party screwed up many ways, but this was a big one.

It's not the immigrants. It's the illegal part. People who play by the rules are getting screwed by the line-jumpers. I have no particular animosity to those who want to better their lives. I just want them to play by the rules.

If the rules need to be changed, and I think they do, then they should be changed. But it is a simple fact that illegals cost more in government services (in the form of welfare, medical bills, education) than they contribute in taxes or other types of contributions. We, the tax-paying drones, are subsidizing them. And we are screwing over the law-abiding immigrants who follow the rules. And that's just wrong.

"It's not the immigrants. It's the illegal part."

Right, and what's happened is that by making the rules more draconian they are not only harder to enforce but harder to comply with, and then the law and order conservatives get their hackles up by pointing out that laws are broken. Their instinctive reaction is to enforce laws, not question the usefulness of the laws. This instinct was exploited to rend apart the Reagan coalition.

Then the rules should be changed. I'm not disagreeing on that part. But rules are rules and we should not be rewarding (and subsidizing) rule breakers (criminals) at the expense of honest people.

We already have the most liberal immigration laws in the world. We already take in more immigrants than any country in the world (possibly all combined).

And in the case at hand, this rancher has already suffered property damage and other monetary damages. There is absolutely no reason he should have to go to court to defend himself simply because he defended his property from criminals.

I wish we could end this war against immigrants. I see no reason why peaceful people shouldn't be allowed here liberally. These policies are only encouraging the more dangerous people to come.

Skyler...seriously: when did you get a magical stick that tells you a illegal immigrant is peaceful? You can wax noxious anarchist poetic all you want. Face it, real freedom? That's anarchy, freedom is literal lack of law: `cause law defines boundaries. What you're suggesting is quite literally "let em all in, they're all peaceful". Ignorant liberal socialist troglodyte bullshit, we have rule of law to define citizens and summarily to punish them for misdeeds. Why? So they don't go do MORE stupid shit that negatively impacts social order. I'm hardly one for big gov't, but the system (or rather the original base of it) is there for a bloody reason.

They get in legally? Good for them. Illegally? If it weren't illegal, which is a catch-22 stupidity in my thought process, I'd boot their collective asses out. Unfortunately, our cultish Oligarchy that now runs this country says that's impolite.

Enough maddog ranting and back to the subject. You think these people are peaceful on average? Spare me, I grew up and continue to work with some of these people (gotta love the bar and restaurant industry). Guess what, most of the "nice guys" all were in gangs upon arrival here and most of them still keep ties. Here's some nice lipservice to the socialist agenda; cause lets face it, these folks are all right.

As can be seen from the aforementioned studies and references, many illegal aliens are not your casual immigration violating, ID theft committing, law breaker. Many are recidivists – a.k.a. career criminals, like Juan Leonardo Quintero, who was deported after being convicted of indecency with a child, but who later came back and then just recently killed a Houston cop in cold blood, leaving a widow and five now fatherless children.

Many of the brutal crimes referenced in the two previous sections are gang related with the growing Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13) gang being notoriously brutal in carrying out its criminal activities. How much is unknown because NOBODY IS TRACKING IT.

"I think this immigration issue was dredged up and purposefully exploited by the Democrat party to drive a wedge into the Reagan coalition that has kept them out of power for a long time. It kept the focus off of national security and keeping the government small."

Immigration IS a national security issue. Or do you think third-country nationals who show up on the border speaking Arabic or Farsi rather than Spanish are really no cause for concern, just a distraction, etc?