I’m Sorry, But Unless The Bus Was Loaded With 75 Year Old Ladies…
…I can not see how Dudley Do-Right can say this
(Royal Canadian Mounted Police Sgt. Steve) Cowell said there was no immediate indication of what prompted the attack. He said he didn’t know how many times the victim was stabbed. Witnesses described the weapon as a large butcher-type knife.
Colwell praised the “extraordinary” level-headedness and bravery of the bus driver and passengers.
“What you saw and what you experienced would shake the most seasoned police officer. And yet I’m told that each of you acted swiftly, calmly and bravely in running away like a bunch of little pussies,” Colwell said. “As a result, no one else was injured.”
Ok, maybe I edited that a little bit, and I freely admit that it is easy to armchair quarterback on something like this, but my god, 30+ of you on that bus and no one thought to kick that piece of crap from behind as he was hacking that poor guy? You could have thrown suitcases, books, purses, fire extinguishers; there were tons of things. But you all managed to swiftly, calmy and, oh yes, bravely flee so that beast could continue to butcher that poor man undisturbed.
Morality | Mr. Bingley | 
August 1, 2008 9:18 am
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Yes, these are very brave people. 35+ people leaving ‘calmly’ as a fellow ‘unarmed’ passenger is being butchered by a psycho. I could maybe understand if he was brandishing a 9 mileometer pistol, but don’t understand the cowardice exhibited by these people acting so ‘bravely’ when he was only armed with a knife. Makes me feel secure in Canada, try that crap in Texas and see were it goes.
And it’s on a bus, Lynn. I could understand some if it were more open and the guy had room to maneuver, but in a narrow bus, when they I’m sure all had luggage, you could just throw bags at him and then pile on.
Nah, the luggage would be underneath. And like major dad and ebola said, knives freak people out.
I’m still in the fire extinguisher/bus’s tool kit camp. There HAD to be something someone could have done to wonk this guy so somebody else could tackle him.
You know, in the US, come to think of it, how many people on public transportation would have pepper spray or those personal tasers?
I agree how come nobody got up and did anything?
The speed of a knife attach is much different that a gun shooting. you could be stabbed 25 times before anyone even knew anything was happening. One gun shot and everyone hit the ground. Another thing. Enough with the Canada bashing seriously if this happened in texas we would have 25 people with gunshot wounds
How typically American, so used to TV and video game violence that you think it’s a piece of cake to take down a huge guy with a rambo knife in reality and no one is going to get badly hurt? I’d be real proud of myself if I was the one who provoked him to slice up the toddler or 6 year old on the bus next.
The one guy posting described how he can barely play in the church lady league without being injured for weeks, and he is going to be Mr Arnold Schwarzenneger? Give me a friggin break and get back to reality. You people would be the first to piss your pants if this happened to you in real life, I wager.
I asked the same question of a friend of mine, weren’t there any freakin men on this godforsaken bus to help this poor kid, and she said NO, there were only a bunch of puss*&$#@^… how disgusting. Brave and courageous?!?!? who the hell is this yahoo?!?!? If this had happened in the states, they would have rushed the psycho, and probably given him a taste of his own medicine. Canadians are so neutral and self concerned that this episode comes as no surprise. Having lived in Washington DC for 17 years and now having spent 2 years in Vancouver BC – I can clearly attest to this.
NBD, so you’re real proud that someone got killed and you did nothing?
And yeah, I guess it is typically american; i cling to my religion, my guns, and my bag which I’ll use as a weapon to help protect another person. 30 people rush the guy from both sides, throw shit at him. Yeah, someone will get hurt; the bastard that you would leave alone to slice up another human.
he’s slicing up a guy in the seat next to him, and you’re concerned about ‘provoking’ him?
Something to remember ….
“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.”
Unfortunately in this case, there were no such people on this bus.
hey “seriously”, so in all of your apparent experience in knife attacks, I’m so happy for you that standing idly by while a fellow human is butchered won’t couse you any guilt. And watch the exaggerations. None of the news stories mentioned a “huge guy”. And it was a butcher knife not a Rambo or hunting knife. Big difference. I’m a chef and I can tell you that I would be much less afraid of a butcher knife. Hello, you can’t straight stab with the thing, it has no freaking point. No one would be bashing Canada if anyone up there had some frijoles. Thank god the passengers of flight 93 acted like us brash, violent Americans. Otherwise, well you know. We make many mistakes, but at least we are not cowards.
What I am saying is that things happen really quickly and you are talking about how you are going to be Mr Courageous and tackle this guy. You have no idea what it is to be in a situation like this, yet you are so smug and condescending to the people who really were, I question your link to reality.
The fact that you are being this hateful in a blog to people who experienced something this horrific, and whose nasty comments can have no effect one way or the other at this point in the game, tells me that your cherished religion, guns and all that other bullshit have not made you the least bit honorable or courageous. Here you are slinging mud at people who have experienced something horrific and being all pompous about how you would have done better – I bet Jesus is so proud right now.
You’re just a typcial coward slinging mud over the internet where no one could possibly physically hurt you. Stick to cyberspace where you can handle it.
Okay. I’m sorry. But if you think that the passengers are cowards because they wanted to get away from the danger, get away to save their own lives, get away so that no furthur harm could occur to anyone, go ahead. Unless you yourself can truthfully say that you know what that situation is like because you have experienced the same thing, shut up. Also, have you never heard of a little thing called shock? Its this state of mind that you are in when witnessing a horrific event that does not allow you to think before acting. In any First Aid class that I have heard of the first thing they always teach is that you have to make sure that you are safe yourself before rescuing the person in harms way. Whats better; one victim that is already dead? or multiple of other victims on top of the beheaded one? Alright, so I am a Canadian. I just so happen to live in the small town of Winnipeg only a few kilos away from where this happened. And since you think that Canadians are empty headed, allow me to explain to you that a kilo is short for kilometers, and that one kilometer is equal to 1.61 miles. Also, it might interest you to know that I am only 15 years old. And I do not think that because of your snap judgement that our whole country is made up of either wimps, or mass murderers. Because of the things which you have stated, you are giving me the right to make the judgement of you, that all Americans are shallow and closed minded. So, I do not care if you think that your neighbouring country is made up of what ever other words you can think of to discribe us as, but please keep them to yourself. Because, my 100% Canadian brother, looks up to your country. I wish that he loved Canada they way he loves the USA, but I cannot change his views. Rather, I accept them because you are our neighbours and we should get along, not judge each other and shoot the other down just because of where we live. Open your mind a little, I mean, come on. Grow up.
30 people rush the guy from both sides, throw shit at him.
This was on a bus, with a narrow aisle, and apparently the murderer and victim were sitting at the back. How exactly could 30 people “rush” the killer “from all sides”?
By the time anyone realized what was going on, the poor young man was probably already stabbed multiple times in the chest by a big “Rambo” style knife. Unfortunately, by that time, out in the middle of the prairie, he is as good as dead.
And many people on the bus did behave very bravely: they stayed on the bus until everyone else was off, to ensure that all the other passengers (including young children) got off safely.
After everyone was off the bus, a couple men did go back on and the killer came up the aisle at them, brandishing his holy crap knife – at that point they locked him in the bus and disabled it: in other words, contained him and kept everyone safe.
Oh yeah, for the guy who thinks the Americans on the flight that they crashed in 911 thinks those people were so much better than the people on the bus, what did they do in the first hours when threatened with plastic knives? Nothing. And what about the brave World Tower professionals who rushed in – how many people did they save – none. How many of their own got killed for no reason? A lot. HAve you saved Iraq – no. Have you killed a lot of Americans – yes. You people need to learn to engage something called a brain.
I’m done with you neanderthals.
How can many of you say that “they should have rushed him and thrown items at him?”
Look at the Sept. 11 flight crashes. Just look at how terrorists with box cutters took over planes. I could have said “Why didn’t the passengers overtake the terrorists and prevented them from getting into the cockpit?” Wussies indeed!
Corection – not wussies….but pussies! A wus is someone who wants to help but doesn’t have the cojones to do so. A pussy is someone whose only concern is for himself.
K, gotta go back to work, but thanks for providing this forum… and I will leave you with these parting words….
If you don’t stand for something, you stand for nothing.
I am a Canadian, a proud Canadian, but am reeling from the news of this incident. My first reaction was very similar to most of the ones I have read here today. I wondered how so many people could be there and no one came to the aid of this man. I cannot rightfully or respectfully know what I myself would have done in that situation. Would I have run with the frightened masses to my own safety? Or would I have at least attempted to lend a hand in bringing down this psychopath? It’s hard to determine without ever being in such a scenario myself. When I heard that 36 people watched this man die it infuriated me. What has happened to mankind? Where is the compassion for your fellow man? I’m not saying that people need to be heroes but shouldn’t we at least give people to assistance we would have wanted had we been the victim? Living in the heart of downtown Edmonton, Alberta I have seen and heard of my fair share of gruesome tales which is enough to drive me into my home when dark comes. But how can you prepare yourself for such senseless and random violence? There had to be something that could have been done to at least attempt to save this poor young man’s life. Things to be thrown, punches and kicks to be hurdled. It is a sad day in Canada and a sad time for human existence.
I think Mr. Bingley’s point is that we as human beings are supposed to come to each others aid and not just run away when one of us is attacked. We are not supposed to act like a herd of gazelles when a crocodile snaps onto one of the herd and simply flee. We should be different then a herd of dumb beasts. I don’t have a clear enough understanding of exactly what happened after reading that article to judge those people on the bus one way or the other. Maybe there really was a good reason why they all abandoned that poor man, but I don’t see it.
Okay. That STOOPID statement just earned you a name change to “FerSUREBrainDeaD”. So no one should ever, EVER attempt to save ANYONE EVER beCAUSE…they might just save NO ONE and get hurt their ownselves.
Words to live and die by.
What a dolt. Your flinging “engage a brain” is delicious irony.
As for the first planeloads of those poor folks on
9/11, they weren’t so much victims of cowrdice as a hangover from the days of the Cuba hijackings. For those old enough to remember, there was a US airliner headed to Cuba seemingly every 40 minutes back then. And the insistent drumbeat was “Do NOT resist!! Do NOT RESIST!!” And everyone always landed safely and got sent home by Fidel on the next hijacked plane in. To their great, eternal credit, the passengers of Flight 93 HEARD what had consequently happened to the other planes and chose to ACT.
I will always believe that, had the other planes’ passengers been aware of the evil intended for them, they too would have risen.
Unless you’ve been in this type of situation yourself you have no idea how you would react. When the stabbing started the bus was on a prairie highway out in the middle of nowhere and it was starting to get dark. According to what I’ve read many passengers were sleeping or watching a movie when it happened. As a previous poster suggested the poor victim was probably stabbed multiple times before anyone had any idea what was going on … and I expect that some people probably didn’t even realize what had happened until they were outside standing in the dark looking in to the bus. Three men did go back in to the bus to try to help (hopefully you folks can forgive the old women and children for not doing so) but found the attacker decapitating and gutting the victim. The attacker charged the men and attempted to get out off the bus (ie, where he could have easily killed or seriously injured other people). Fortunately, the men were able to keep the guy in the bus until police arrived. It’s very easy to criticize these people for not mounting some sort of brave attack on this killer. However, what happened was so totally unexpected and unfolded so quickly (ie, seconds rather than minutes) that only an individual with training (police or military) or experience with violence (gangbanger or ex-con) would be capable of a rapid, unarmed response. If you’ve been on a late night bus trip, managed to rouse yourself from sleep and then successfully engaged (unarmed) and subdued a knife wielding, six foot tall, 200 pound blood covered psycho you can call these people a “bunch of little pussies”. If you haven’t talk is very cheap: you really don’t know what you would have done under these same circumstances.
For you run away it’s dangerous types. Courage is when you forsake your own safety for someone elses. Jeez, come on a knife attack does happen quickly but then what traumatic event doesn’t? Gun attacks happen pretty quickly not in slo mo. For NBD hope you never have to be rescued say from a burning building I’m sure the thought of someone putting his/her ass on the line for your sorry one would be too much to handle. While I’m at it, 1 kilo equals 1.61 miles?? How about 1 mile equals 1.61 kilometers, guess school up north is not that good either. One individual, trained, one shot, murdering bastard dead. No other injuries since they were all running away. Since my .45 only hold 8 rounds 5 people wounded tops…
i live in tennessee, in the us. recently a guy walked in to a church during a children’s play and started shooting. one man jumped in front of the gun while others tackled the shooter.
one new years eve when i was out with my friends some drunk guy walked in the bar, pulled out a gun and started shooting. someone tackled him to the ground before he even got past the bouncers, punched him in the face and restrained him.
when i read that all the passengers got off the bus and some stood there watching in horror.. i was surprised. it wasn’t their fault though. they didn’t cause it to happen and no one can say that if they tried to step in that it would have ended differently.
I wonder if this psycho felt he was ripped off at the fair booth? God knows it doesn’t take much to send someoone off. How far back was he? Were there many seats behind them, does anyone know?
I don’t what disturbs me more, the actual beheading, the COWARDICE of those people on the bus who did NOTHING to help that poor man, or the authorities who encouraged such DISHONOR.
It disgusts me to think we live in a culture that allows their fear to rule them. What about courage, what about their anger at what was being done to the victim? Is there no adrenaline running through anyone’s veins that tells them to fight for what is RIGHT and not just fight for themselves??? Do we really live in such a selfish world where its every man for himself?! No wonder such oppression happens!
And to those of you using the idea of children, someone could have shepherded them out of the way and then everyone else could have rushed the bastard.
And if we want to quote bus attacks, how about the bus load of ELDERLY people in S. America who were hijacked, fought back and won!
People! We need to fight for each other, otherwise we disgrace our culture and bring dishonor to the very word human being!
First point, it’s difficult, armed or not, in a small space to take down someone armed with a knife. As a matter of fact, in close combat training the first thing you are told is, “If they have a knife, you are getting cut.” Simple as that. As a matter of fact, this just happened the other day, with room to move and attacking the man armed with a knife from two different directions, both defenders are injured. In the close confines of a bus? You’re screwed. Period. In that case, more than one person would have died.
Now, as for you canadian jackasses bitching about 9/11: There is a simple fact that before 9/11, terrorists routinely threatened planes in this fashion, and if you didn’t do anything, you survived a nice detour the majority of the time. 9/11 changed the thought pattern on modern hijacker defense, because now the hijackers are intent on destroying the whole, not aiming to land somewhere else or garner some form of diplomatic immunity. So drop that subject if you’re not going to thoroughly think it through. Matter of factly, the assault on the terrorist controlled cockpit? Only occurred after passengers heard about the other planes used as rather large bombs.
In all honesty I think the canucks did what was proper. More than likely, unless there were trained close combat experts on that bus another person or six would be dead and or seriously injured. No more than two people at a time could attack the assailant, meaning they would have to be better armed or better trained than the suspect: preferably both. As for pepperspray: again, that’s great if you have it, but pepperspray is not effective on everyone. In close confines it may well injure the person using it as well. Then you also need to think that since the suspect only has two avenues through which to be attacked, all he has to do is sit and listen to anyone coming at him, or go apeshit. Seriously, drop it. They did what was necessary and no one else was injured and the suspect was captured. I’m all for whacking someone on the spot if you have the capability, but these people did the intelligent thing given the situation.
To all of you who weren’t on that bus and who have never been in a situation like this yet have the audacity to call those that were actually there cowards, I’d like to see what you would have done had you been there. It’s easy to sit on your large, fat american a#@es (Lynn, Mr Bingley, tree huggin sister)and assess what should have been done, but until you’ve experienced something so horrendous, so surreal, please, shut-up.
I don’t what disturbs me more, the actual beheading, the COWARDICE of those people on the bus who did NOTHING to help that poor man, or the authorities who encouraged such DISHONOR.
It disgusts me to think we live in a culture that allows their fear to rule them. What about courage, what about their anger at what was being done to the victim? Is there no adrenaline running through anyone’s veins that tells them to fight for what is RIGHT and not just fight for themselves??? Do we really live in such a selfish world where its every man for himself?! No wonder such oppression happens!
And to those of you using the idea of children, someone could have shepherded them out of the way and then everyone else could have rushed the bastard.
And if we want to quote bus attacks, how about the bus load of ELDERLY people in S. America who were hijacked, fought back and won!
People! We need to fight for each other, otherwise we disgrace our culture and bring dishonor to the very word human being!
your right, your sitting in an chair in the comfort of your house writing this right now. By the time people noticed what was going on the poor guy was going to die no matter what, the murderer had already stabbed him multiple times in the chest. What are you going to do? try to save a man that is going to die, or to save a bus load of people that have a chance. I’m thinking the bus load of people is the better choice.
People think before you critize the actions that were taken.
No, of course not. But one should hope against hope that one WOULD find the intestinal fortitude SOMEWHERE in the depths of their being to come to another human being’s aid. Else, what are we? Like Bingley said, gazelles fleeing and let the slowest one get eaten as long as we get away?
There are a million excuses for NOT acting and, truly, ALL of them legit, not the least of which “he was already dead.”.
If you can live with yourself afterwards.
Thank God someone else saw this as I did. My initial response was WFT. I cannot believe a busload of people just ran off the bus and left that man to be beheaded. SHAME ON EVERY ONE OF YOU. That young man was only a few years older than my son. It sickens me.
PLEASE FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY DON’T FALL ASLEEP ON A GREYHOUND BUS!!!
There is not a doubt in my mind that if I were sitting where I could reach the killer I would have slugged him with one of my crutches. I would have used it like a baseball bat. I would have sent him flying.
Signed a US female age 61.
Deb, my American ass is quite shapely, thank you.
As much as I bash Canadians, I think anyone that thinks the same thing wouldn’t happen in the U.S. is kidding themselves. There are plenty of videos on youtube that show us Americans doing nothing as our fellow citizens are attacked or in need of assistance. Hindsight is 20/20, but unless you were on that bus, STFU!
SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY!
some innocent guy died, what more is there that we can doabout that now?!
okay>?
NOW SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU CANADIANS AND AMERICANS!
Seriously is right. It’s easy to read a story on the internet and decide that YOU would have been the big, brave hero who saved everyone. Very different when you’re faced with a raging lunatic with a giant, bloody hunting knife, in cramped quarters and surrounded by passengers all trying to get out of the single exit. First we have armchair quarterbacks, now we’re seeing the age of the armchair hero…
I understand the feeling of those of us sitting safe at home imagining what we would do, and thinking a person would rush to the aid of a person being murdered this way .But I have to also understand the shock of actually being there when some thing this horrific was happening.
I’m sure the full impact of this hasn’t even hit these people yet. As for post traumatic stress, I am sure when this sets in a few of these people are going to be in therapy.
So judging this situation seems impossible for anyone that wasn’t there.
rofl, I’d agree with you there Li, but most of our usual posters on here are either current or prior Marines. I have no doubt in my mind either of my folks (major dad/THS) would have been on top of this asshole attempting to see if he had any brain mass. That goes for most of our other readers as well. But again, the rub of that is we’re trained close combat personel. Most of these canucks I’m willing to wager weren’t.
Hmmm, seems the the Canadians are charging the murdering bastard with second degree murder, gee guess the urge to kill that guy just popped into his head and hey I just happen to have this big knife. I’d like to think everyone wouldn’t be a pussy and run away because it’s dangerous and tight quarters but to some I guess that would be what they would say in their armchairs. News flash some of us have been in life threatening situations and not run screaming the other way unlike some of you who are posting. Nothing like being a pacifist pussy and wanting everyone else to be one too.
if you guys have ever been driving through manitoba, through the praries, it is probably the MOST boring drive ever. peopole were half asleep, it was around 8 or 9 in the evening. they arent thinking right. if your half asleep and then here a blood curtling scream, your initial reaction is to get off that bus, and right away. you people can say what you would do, and yes, if you were a marine, you most likely would do soemthing about it. however, these were not marines, they have no training, and they live in a boring place where nothing happens, they didnt know any other way to act.
This comment blog is for opinions–the people on here who want everyone to shut up should probably go somewhere that doesn’t allow others opinions.
I SAY THEY WERE COWARDS. AND I WONT SHUT THE FUCK UP. THINK ABOUT IF IT WAS YOU OR YOUR KID OR FAMILY MEMBER.
If you can’t handle all the opinions on the blog don’t write in and don’t read it.
signed,
djdaydreams
Wow – with all you American heroes out there, I can’t beleive you guys didn’t finish with Iraq in a couple of days!
Hey folks ~~ None of us can pass judgment on anyone no matter what side they chose to take on this matter, due to the fact, WE WERE NOT THERE!!!!
There might have been a dozen folks sleeping just like the victim, or maybe they were listening to their ipods, or watching their Nano’s, reading, daydreaming…etc…
Ya feel me…
The tragic end to this story is a young man lost his life and there is nothing any one of us can do to take this back…
All we can do now as a whole is be aware of the dangers that lie await for helpless victims, which could very well be one of us….
No need to blame and point the finger to those who were victims of a violent crime before their eyes too…
Blessings to those 30-some individuals who had to experience this tragedy along with the family who has now lost a loved one due to craziness…
Aloha
Danielle
If wars were fought acknowledging that collateral damage will happen regardless, Iraq would have been done quickly, Steven. It’s this hippy bullshit concept of “we can’t hurt anyone but the enemy, even if they’re housing/aiding/sleeping with the enemy”. That thought process that our chickenshit culture has developed is a precious boon to all of these assholes; they know all they have to do is hide in the populace. Take a look at my favorite example: The bombing of Dresden. Everyone likes to say WWII was how a war should be fought, and you know what, it was. Because we shouldn’t allow hostage situations every thirty seconds. If you house the enemy, you reap the enemy’s fate. Guess what, if people know that by housing or aiding the enemy, they’re as likely, if not more to be injured or killed? They’re gonna bloody well stop for the majority of the time. I’m not suggesting the far right “nuke `em all” strategy, precision is a necessity, but we shouldn’t be pantywaisting about going in somewhere for fear of civilian causalities. They know we’re coming 90% of the time. Get the fuck outta the way. You don’t stand in front of a moving mac truck. So, again, drop that shit. Bloody canucks.
The sad truth of the matter is this; regardless of where this happened, in the States OR Canada, chances are the same thing would have occurred. People have become little more than scared sheep, running in fear whenever somebody brandishes a knife or a gun or a box cutter or anything else out of the ordinary.
This incident just proves the case; there were 36 people on that bus, some of them able bodied men. 36 people against 1 man. Yes he had a knife and yes someone else may have even gotten cut, or stabbed once, most likley survivable. With 36 people rushing him, he’d be hard pressed to get more than that done however.
I have not been in this situation myself, and God willing, I won’t ever have to be. If I am, I hope I will not run away, I hope I will stand where no one else will. This is why restuarant and office shootings happen, this is why planes are hijacked and crashed. No one does anything. Stop being sheep people, don’t be afraid to do something. You may be hurt or worse, but at least you’ll go being a hero, somebody that tried to do something for once.
Imagine if the story had been, “Man saved by fellow passengers”
I’ll bet his family wishes for that headline instead.
The whole thing is incredibly sad.
Amen to that Rick.
canadians are heros. we are not pussies, we help and try to resuce people, we are a heroic nation.
fact:
a week and a bit ago, a boy was burried alive with hot ashphalt while working on a construction site, everyone there was grabing the boy, trying everything they could to save the boy. one man there even jumped into the ashphalt himself to try to rescue this young man.
fact:
a few months ago there was a stabbing at my high school durring the lunch break. there were middle school students also there witnessing this event. as soon as the victim screamed 13, 14, 15, and 16 year olds rushed to the victim and used first aid untill the abulence got there. teenagers, kids. with our whole lives ahead of us, we still put ourselves in harm way to save this boy. but, it was in the middle of the day, we had energy, we werent half asleep, and we werent in a confined area with asiles only a foot wide.
fact:
in april, 2 6 foot plus 300lbs drunken men came into my backyard in the middle of the night.they were trying to break into my house. my father called the police, my mother, a WOMAN(yes woman are strong, and we can take on more than a man can), tackeled one of the drunks and held him down in the snow untill police arrived. i do not know how she did it, she is a tiny woman, but she did it. because she was brave.
fact:
Canadians are not pussies. we are brave. we are strong. and we act in a way that make sure that the best possible outcome occurs.
Ebola – “Bloody Canucks” – Indeed! Brave Canadians are perishing in Afganistan every day!
There are and have been a helluva lot of brave canadiens.
I just wish some of them had been on that bus.
Oh Americans… such talkers! It was some pyshco who was butchering a poor innocent person, do you really think that other people were gonna do anything so that they might become victims too? You think it’s soo easy for all those people to just be like “ok, lets try to rush this guy and stop him?” seriously? get a grip!! Realistically, if you saw someone hacking someone to death what would be your first response? call 911? run away? or risk your own life? I doubt you would risk your own life! Just like American’s to sit back and judge a situation without knowing the details.. .wow so brave you American’s… judge every oneelse but don’t see how wrong you are – maybe that’s why the rest of the world hates Americans?
People are supposed to help one another. It’s easily to critize others without knowing the details of a given situation. As for those slagging the Canadians about not helping, just remember the elderly man in Hartford that was hit by two vehicles. How many people ignored him, and drove their cars around him? No one was concerned about him, yet you feel you would have tried to help the victim. I think not!
I have to make another comment .I think a lot of people might not have been on bus or remember what it is like..
The isle is narrow. It would have taken a plan of sorts for a group of people to charge this guy. It would have been one person leading the attack.Because of the narrow isle, others trying to crawl over seats. It wouldn’t have been quite as easy as some think for a group to go at once, people falling over each other.It would have been chaotic.
I just can’t say these people were wrong. What was the time line, were they sleeping, shocked and confused?
When people jumped up who was in the position of jumping first on this guy? A child, A mother trying to pull her child away causing a pile up of people?
Because if one person ran towards the front, thats what happend, Rambo couldn’t have gotten through.
Give these people a break..
People not there at the time can not even imagine what it was like.
Indeed they are and bless their brave hearts!
Others, however, were running off a bus.
Thank God for the internet. Constantly reminding me how stupid humans are.
Wow, I would laugh if it wasn’t so tragic. The only thing sadder than this terrible event is the suggestion that the brave and appropriate responses by the driver and passengers are somehow indicative of apathy. I think what they did was amazing. Is this the new American passtime – to fantasize about ways of “kicking ass”? Shame on all you armchair vigilantes. My deepest condolences to the young man’s family and to all the passengers involved, don’t pay any attention to these idiots. Perhaps our American friends should investigate the story on some Canadian news sites, I can guarantee that the wording and the coverage will be quite different from whatever you are getting there.
Enough- you should be ashamed of yourselves. Have a little diginity and just pray for that poor young man’s soul and his family. What gives you the right to judge others in a situation you didn’t live through?! Cut the Rambo attitude and get real. Look at your own lives and what your living in. This is not about
Canada, but a poor man sitting beside a lunatic. It could have happened anywhere.
Apathy? Hardly; the people on the bus acted.
I’m a proud Canadian from Winnipeg. American’s don’t know Canada. They think we drink Maple Syrup mixed with Beer and watch Hockey in year round -40 Degree Weather. I actually had a customer of ours (an American) ask me why we didn’t pelt them with Timbits and Beavers. I know he was joking but the underlining theme is that a young kid died. Americans are all saying they would have helped and blaming Canada for being soft. How does us as a Nation as a whole be soft? Are you saying every American would have jumped out of their seat and jump a guy cutting off another guy’s head and eating his flesh? Pinch yourself!
How trite.
No, it’s about the people sitting around them.
I think you Americans need to realize the following points:
– The isles on Greyhounds are narrow, and the seats can get in the way. You versus a crazed man with a big bloody knife. I’m pretty sure the psycho would win, unless you can shoot moves through the passenger seats.
– The victim was most definitely dead by the time people realized what was happening. He was STABBED IN THE NECK REPEATEDLY. I’m quite sure that it would have been a lost cause to try and save him.
– A lot of the people were sleeping when this happened. The driver yelled at everyone to leave the bus, because he was concerned for everyone’s safety. The sleepyheads didn’t know what was going on, and simply listened to the driver and got off the bus.
– Three men, including the bus driver, closed the door on the murderer. The psycho swiped his knife at them, and yet they were still determined to keep him contained on the bus.
Can you really call that cowardice? I don’t think so.
I am an american.
I also drove a school bus for 22 years.
I had to deal with my share of fights .
I had a mirror and most the time the fight was a few blows in and I was pulling over, before students even knew there was an issue.
Many many times trying to get down the isle to get to the students was almost impossible.AS the natural instinct is to stand up and watch to see what is happening.
Getting to the fighting students, sometimes only after many blows were already taken.Not cause I wasn’t trying, but because of the other students who were blocking my way. I could barely see what was happening because of the students standing up.
So I think all this speculation about these people not caring , or trying is total crap.
They were in crowded, narrow quarters, shocked, confused.
And like I said I dought Rambo could have made his way through.
Imagine if the story had been, “Man saved by fellow passengers”
How could that outcome possible have occurred? If I have a hunting/survival knife and I decide to stab to death the sleeping passenger next to me, no one is going to be able to stop me. On a long, dark, boring stretch of highway, none of the other passengers will realize what is happening until it’s too late. I could stand up and stab someone, probably a dozen times in as many seconds.
It’s not like the murderer stood up and announced what he was about to do. It’s not like he was striking at all the passengers – he seemed intent on mutilating the body of the poor man. In that case, it seems like the bravest and smartest option of any heroic passengers would be to first help the other passengers escape. And then after that, although I would risk my life to stop an ongoing attack, I would not risk my life to stop a dangerous killer from mutilating a body.
I’m shocked to see the venom people have for the other passengers. As has been said repeatedly, there was nothing people could do by that point – everyone was sleeping when it started. And as was pointed out in an article here, there were 2 kids across the aisle – I think getting them off was one of the saner things to do.
Now, as for the second-degree murder – it would be the same in the USA. Go check what qualifies for first- and second-degree murder. As grusome as this was, it doesn’t seem premeditated. If they can prove it was, it’ll go to first-degree murder. The level of disgust we have towards a crime doesn’t dictate the charge against the perpetrator.
All you people who think these people were cowards must be really good at playing Grand Theft Auto–because that’s obviously the world you live in.
Hey Tree Hugger
Get a life- better yet get off your holier than thou attitude. Pray to God you never have to live through something like that. Again – easy to judge sitting in a chair. Walk in someone else’s shoes before you can actually justify your
comments. Otherwise it’s just arrogance.
Stacie, I ride one of those buses every day; I know exactly what they are like. I also know this fellow is getting a lot of press coverage:
Garnet Caton, who was sitting in front of McLean, talked of a “bloodcurdling scream” when the attack began.
“It was like something between a dog howling and a baby crying, I guess you could say,” Caton said. “I don’t think it will leave me for a while.”
I fully recognize that it was complete and total chaos on the bus as the driver brought it to a stop and everyone piled off, and many of you are raising valid points in your defense of the passengers.
But I think poor Mr. McLean needed someone to stand up for him, even if the cause was already lost.
I do not understand how people can judge and a whole country by their reaction to one article. You guys who are such heroes were not there and the article is very vague on the details of how it even started; however you are willing to judge a whole country and call them all cowards?? There are plenty of examples all over the American news on how people leave others to die without offering any assistance… how about that poor woman lying on the floor of a hospital waiting room with American nurses and doctors looking at her and going about their business? My point is that we were not there, all we could do is try to help as many people as we can on a daily basis and not be so quick to judge a whole country when ours is hardly perfect!
And all we’ve said is that we wonder why someone didn’t. I think I also said how I could understand why they didn’t BUT. We would hope in our heart of hearts that we WOULD.
But that’s probably too many words for the poor ‘tired’ fellow to follow.
All these comments are being made but not one person noticed the following…unlike the United States, violence such as this is not common in Canada. We perpetuate peace from our politics to our society. So when something as graphic and gruesome such as this happens we are not perpared. The reaction of the driver and individuals was the right thing. As far as everyone knows the kid was already dead, so what would they be saving? a corpse? Also, when you are half asleep and in a relaxed state how would one react…it is our instinct to run and not stop and fight. It is our instinct to save ourselves especially if you really have no idea what is going on. And have any of you been on a bus? There isn’t enough room to walk to the bathroom without banging into at least one person. The best course of action was to protect everyone else from this lunatic and that is what was done. The sad thing is that a young kid died. Instead of talking about cowardice, think about this kid and a family who has lost a son. It such Americanized attitudes of violence that has most of the world lacking in respect for the United States.
That tree hugger served her country, and learned how to deal with aggressors. How about you cupcake?
And Bing, dearest uncle of mine, I reiterate, unless any of those people had training in close combat, acting with physical violence against him was not rational.
Well, if he screamed and then sounded like a hurt puppy (according to the eyewitness) he wasn’t quite dead yet. But WTF, he soon would be, right? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few…or the one.
It is such EUROPEANIZED ATTITUDES of NON-VIOLENCE that has us lacking respect for your point, N.K.D.
If only there was but 1 brave American on that bus, I’m convinced now that the lunatic would have been totally disarmed and subdued with split-second precision.
As if!
Are all you ignorant people retarded? leave it to americans to take a canadian tragedy, which is like any other day in the U.S., and totally twist it.talk is cheap, and its funny how americans say that they would have done differently when people continuously hear that 80 year old men are struck by cars and left for dead while about 30 on lookers do nothing? People are chased with guns and knives and people casually watch then finally think to call 911.
The man was armed with a hunting knife, and as for the poor young man who was killed, he was gone before anyone could have helped, and the attacker was in a different world.The people were on a little bus with little room to move much less fight someone who “is like a robot” with a hunting knife.
Typical americans, instead of expressing any type of sympathy for the poor witnessess of this brutal, and fatal attack, blame is given to them for not doing more.
There we go again, your smugness.
I don’t think anyone’s even implied that, OR even a happy ending at all. Just wondering aloud ‘what if someone tried‘.
And it has nothing to do with “American”, which I wouldn’t expect the myriad Canadians visiting our board to realize. It has to do with humans beings responding to the desperate need of another human being. Time and again, we’ve discussed “WHY didn’t somebody DO something” circumstances in this country here.
I am absolutely sickened by this story. Every time I think about it I feel sick.
Reading all of these people calling the others on the bus cowards.. ticks me off. Every last one of you would run others down to get out of the door first. I would bet on it. It is easy to talk big about taking the guy down when you are at home and not on that bus. The guy who sat in front of the situation had to hit people to wake them up. The bus driver and a few others (including the guy who sat in front of the situation) did try to go back in but the guy lunged at them with a knife. They had to barricade him in the bus to save the rest of the people. Perhaps if the guy had gotten out 30+ people could have jumped him but at what risk?? Him escaping?? Him getting away??? More people dying?
By the way Canadians have “frijoles”…. we stood up to you didn’t we when we felt the Iraq war was wrong.
I for one am thankful to live in Canada…where we don’t have to live our lives in fear of our shadows unlike you.
Sure, it could have gone down differently–if a passenger had been armed and able to get a clear shot, etc., etc. But, under the circumstances, it is probably a miracle that no one else was slashed or stabbed by the madman as people scrambled to get off the bus. As for Americans reacting differently–nonsense. It could just as easily have happened here. Our sympathies should be with the family of the victim and with the passengers.
Is the tree hugger serving her country now? It’s attitudes like that that have the rest of the world questioning this great USofA. and turning away from it’s RAMBO mentality.
I’d say no- not much dignity in the arrogance of it.
There is a lot of misinformation on this site. The people did not stand and watch. They fled for their own lives, not knowing precisely what was going on.
Further, the bus aisles only accommodate one person at a time. It would be impossible for more than one person to intervene at a time. Anybody, who did try by themselves would have surely and quickly been injured by the knife.
Our Canadian society is not accustomed to such violence. I believe any person (including arm chair heroes) would have been stunned and in utter confusion with the speed in which this happened. After all, it was late evening and the other passengers were having a peaceful ride. Who would be prepared for such an event.
New details emerge, from The Globe and Mail. There is a lot more information in this article now, including the first brief court appearance, and including the following details of the attack:
Night was closing in and passengers were dozing off as The Legend of Zorro played on the television screen.
Mr. Caton [who was sitting in the row immediately in front of the killer and victim] said the attack was utterly unprovoked.
He watched in horror as the man, described as tall and well-built with close-cropped hair, plunged his hunting knife into the victim eight or nine times, sending blood spraying across the back of the bus.
The driver, hearing the screams, pulled to the side of the road and opened the doors, allowing passengers to flee.
…
One mother, who was seated near the back, threw her toddler forward several rows to get the child away from danger, a witness said.
Mr. Caton, who served five years in the Canadian Forces and was closest to the attacker, paused before leaving, torn momentarily between concern for his own safety and the thought of abandoning the bleeding victim. He turned to another man nearby and asked for his help.
“I said, ‘Give me a hand and let’s get this guy.’ And the other guy took off,” he said.
It was only moments later that the victim’s screams went silent. Mr. Caton knew he was too late.
Mr. Caton jumped off the bus, and was met by a trucker who had stopped after seeing the commotion. The trucker grabbed a crowbar and Mr. Caton got a hammer and they tried to contain the attacker on the bus. The attacker swung his knife at them through the partially closed bus door.
Then the incident became even more macabre. The attacker returned to the victim’s side and began sawing through his neck. A few moments later, he walked to the front of the bus holding a decapitated human head, displaying it to the 34 passengers and the bus driver standing outside.
…
Reports from the scene indicate the man then ate pieces of the corpse.
You sure did.
And frijoles are refried beans, by the way. I think you meant “cajones”.
You are right Stephanie:
How many You Tube videos of people TAPING a knife fight on a NY subway car or NY streets are there. More than I would like to think about. Talk about cowards.
I only have something very brief to add. I found everyone’s comments on this forum very intriguing and I think it’s good to get a dialogue going about events like this when they happen. However, I think everyone needs to take one giant step back and realize that all of the people on that bus experienced something terrible – they are victims as well. Can any of you imagine living a normal life after going through something like that? I sure can’t and I don’t think it is fair to criticize their actions unless you, too, have been on a Greyhound bus where someone was attacked and decapitated – maybe then you actually KNOW what you’re talking about.
That being said, I am a Canadian and I am damn proud of it. I have been to the US many times, all over. A lot of the stereotypes that the entire world holds true about the US are not fair, because not all Americans are the same, just like all Canadians are not the same. However, most of the Americans who have posted their “those cowards should have attacked that psycho” type comments are the reason that most of the world views Americans as violent, arrogant, and incredibly ignorant. As a stereotype for the US as a whole, I do not agree; as an accurate description of all those people on this forum casting judgment toward those poor people on that Greyhound, I agree 100%.
Say what you want, I would still prefer to live absolutely anywhere in Canada than the nicest place in the United States. I choose a country where we don’t have a kill-or-be-killed mentality and we try to solve problems using rational thought instead of guns. Enjoy the “better” world you think you are creating.
Great addendum, don. GREAT. Good for Mr. Caton, bless his brave heart and the truck driver who stopped.
Come on people..
You WERN’T there..Who in their right mind would expect to have somthing this horrific happen?
The other people on the bus were victims too.
Remember 9-11? I remember seeing hundreds of people running “away’ from the towers.
Lets concede there was ‘ONE’ coward on the bus..(Just as a example).Could have been a child, a mother a old lady..(who knows)
So they run screaming to the front. Others hear screaming, can’t see anything.Cause most couldn’t once people stood up.
What the normal reaction..?? Run with the crowd and wonder what the hell was happening.
Hey, we all want to be hero’s..Thank goodness we have video games and we can ‘play’ hero every day if we want..
I think as tragic as this was , it is really cruel to make it worse by calling the other victims on that bus cowards.
If any of them feel cowardly they will forever have to live with it.If not why label them as one?
You are right Don but I was quoting a guy who use the word “frijoles”
Last I checked, the Canadian political set concerning the invasion was over “international law” about border violation, even though your own gov’t intelligence supported the idea that Saddam’s regime possessed WMDs.
As for thankful to live in Canada? I’m thankful you live there too, personally I wish all the other peace mongering twits would move that way too. Then maybe a war could be waged in the method a war should be waged, brutal and quick. Winds up saving more lives that way.
“Canada is like a loft apartment above a great party.”
Guys, can’t we all just use spellcheck? First, we neglect those in distress, now spelling and grammar? It’s a slippery slope.
“As for thankful to live in Canada? I’m thankful you live there too, personally I wish all the other peace mongering twits would move that way too. Then maybe a war could be waged in the method a war should be waged, brutal and quick.”
People like you are the reason Americans are hated around the world. Attitudes like that are also the reason that peace will never happen in the world. Thanks so much for keeping the war industry booming, but you would probably be better off focusing attention on your own country that’s letting down its own people with a crumbling economy and one of the world’s worst health care systems.
Uh, Jennifer ?. 1 mile is 1.6 kilometers. You got it backwards.
I think we’d all like to have done something had we been there, but it’s easy to be armchair analysts in this situation.
Apparently this is a website whose inhabitants are all heroes. HAHAHA! Ya’ll are such liars. I doubt 1% of anyone here saying they would do something, or calling people pussies for not doing something would actually do anything if they were in the same position. First off, the guy was stabbed in the neck at the very beginning of the attack. Chances are that he was a done deal from the first seconds of the attack. Second, maybe the attacker had some military knowledge, one never knows, and appearences can be deceiving. And as mentioned before, you can’t save someone that’s already dead. Third, how many of you have been in a knife fight or a shoot-out? Oh, really? I’ve been in a knife fight, without a knife. It’s not fun. If the knife is sharp enough you would be amazed at how many cuts one can get without even knowing it. And this was with a mini Japanese blade. If you think you, or these people would try to stop a guy with a butcher knife, you are lying to yourself. Just because you watched the Dark Night doesn’t make you Batman. The cramped space actually would work against grabbing anything to use. Wouldn’t it suck to get stabbed in the gut while grabbing a overhead piece of luggage to save the dead guy? And lastly, to claim Americans wouldn’t let this happen is just crazy. We are not Israel where everyone has military training. Here in America we’ve let people die on subways, doctor offices, etc. and not even noticed, or walked on in spite of it. And to the guy who praised the Flight 93 passengers, well sure they fought back and are valiant for such, but look how they ended up. Also, they HAD to do it…they were going to die, whereas with the bus passengers there was a dead guy already and they had the opportunity to save themselves. I guarantee you if there had been parachutes on Flight 93 anyone able to grab one would have been jumping. Not to mention the amount of blood that was probably sprayed all over the bus. This alone, along with the scream, probably prompted almost all the people on the bus to run. I know we all aspire to stand strong in the face of evil and we want more than anything for others to believe us, but honestly there are very few humans who really are willing to do so.
Remember Kitty Genovese. That happened in the States, in Queens. 30-something people watched her get stabbed to death, from the safety of their apartment windows, and no one even called 911. This is not about Canada vs. the US. This is about human behavior. It’s hard to explain, and none of us knows how we would react, so please, let’s all save the bravado and judgment.
Matt thanks for figuring it out. You’re awesome! Great use of the ‘Caps Lock’ key.
Hate to break it to you dear, but war is a human necessity. I can’t think of one time in recorded human history that there wasn’t physical conflict occurring. People like me aren’t the reason America is hated, it’s people like you that don’t get their bloody peacenik socialistic ways met on demand. Peace would be lovely, but realism is…ain’t gonna happen kid! People like you give power to the people that would take an aggressive stance. I’m not being an aggressor, I’m merely saying war should be carried out in an efficient fashion. And adhering to your people’s jackass commentary on the proper rules of engagement is laughable…but for some reason we still seem to capitulate to you on it…and then we sit back and wonder why a war takes for bloody ever to either putter out, lose or “win”.
As for the health care systems, have you looked at your own lately? I don’t call people performing their own bloody dental routines a “functioning” health care system. Also, our economy is currently stable if you look at the statistics (not that you would have bothered, that would defeat your marxist arguing stylings). Also, if we cut off aid to all the people that YOU WON’T, we’d probably have a surplus rather than a deficit. Amusing when you actually look at something resembling the whole picture, but I digress.
Tree-Hugging Sister:
We in Canada are just sooo beholden to you brave Americans who won’t even post their real names on a blog! Thank God we had you guys to rescue us at the ass-end of 2 World Wars!
Did I miss something Steve? Did you guys get invaded or bombed by Germany? Damn, I must have missed where Nazi Germany stormed Toronto.
Thank you Heidi, I couldn’t remember her (Kitty Genovese)name and I wanted to use her as an example. To all Canadiens here, I apologize for the idiocy and machismo being projected by my fellow Americans here. We can be fools. Apparently all the Americans here have watched the movie Boondock Saints about 50 too many times.
And we’re sooo awful glad you came by to visit, Steven.
Lots to think and talk about.
But I will admit, that last little ‘gotcha’ of yours has me even more befuddled, point-wise. Separated by a common language, mayhap?
I think there are far more current examples of man’s inhumanity/apathy to his fellow man than a 1964 murder, n’est pas? And we’ve probably had something to say about them, too.
I’ve already supported that the passengers made the correct move. And yes, I support the idea of efficient wars and dislike peacenik hypocrites. Don’t go lumping me in as a right-wing sadomasochist, Matt. It’s already been said this hasn’t a damn thing to do with nationality, it’s a question of morals, which quite obviously Americans, Lithuanians, Egyptians, Russians (well, maybe not) might well have the same end response to a given scenario. The Canadians on the forum simply want to feel they’ve been slighted and somehow this is a national, not ethically tactical question. But for argument’s sake, hell, I’m happy to indulge.