I’m Sorry, But Unless The Bus Was Loaded With 75 Year Old Ladies…
…I can not see how Dudley Do-Right can say this
(Royal Canadian Mounted Police Sgt. Steve) Cowell said there was no immediate indication of what prompted the attack. He said he didn’t know how many times the victim was stabbed. Witnesses described the weapon as a large butcher-type knife.
Colwell praised the “extraordinary” level-headedness and bravery of the bus driver and passengers.
“What you saw and what you experienced would shake the most seasoned police officer. And yet I’m told that each of you acted swiftly, calmly and bravely in running away like a bunch of little pussies,” Colwell said. “As a result, no one else was injured.”
Ok, maybe I edited that a little bit, and I freely admit that it is easy to armchair quarterback on something like this, but my god, 30+ of you on that bus and no one thought to kick that piece of crap from behind as he was hacking that poor guy? You could have thrown suitcases, books, purses, fire extinguishers; there were tons of things. But you all managed to swiftly, calmy and, oh yes, bravely flee so that beast could continue to butcher that poor man undisturbed.
Morality | Mr. Bingley | 
August 1, 2008 9:18 am
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That’s beautiful, Matt. And very true.
Tree-Hugging Sister & Ebola:
Your obvious and copious bravery is palpable, even from the nether regions of cyberspace!
I’m brave for saying they made the right move. Thanks Steve, coming from an upstanding narcissistic nationalist such as yourself, I damn near feel complicated.
Being rational Ebola and having courage are separate things. Like I said before courage is setting aside your welfare for another’s. Stop all this Canada and America bashing we’re talking just the people on the bus. And why can’t we call these people cowardly? It sure wasn’t heroic. If you are tired of THS get off the blog. I guess the correct thing to say according to all you out there is “how tragic and yep I would have run like hell too”. I like that “well he was dead anyway”, boy like to have you covering my six. Funny how the most vitriol is aimed at those who would like to think someone would have the brass to actually do something vice lookout for their own hide. Guess believing in man’s nature to do something good is somehow warlike or barbaric. on a tactical note, the small confines of a bus lend themselves well to rushing a single target with overwhelming mass, he can’t move either. That’s for those who are thinking about what could have been done aside from those who want to start more individual bashing.
Bert, I so agree with you. A bus is a very cramped space. This happened at the back of a bus. It would take one person, running for the front, and there is your chance at stopping the guy. What if that one person was a mother with her child? How long would it take a person to get back to bus in time to save the poor man?
As for that comment by DJ (a 61 year old female). I would love to see you try and swing your crutches on a coach bus – maybe on a city bus, but there is zero room for you to swing crutches at a person.
The one different think between Canada and US reaction is that in the US, some granny would have a gun in her purse and blow the bastard away – then again – in the US this nut-case would have an AK-47 and spray everyone on the bus with bullets.
Name calling. I’m stunned it has come to this.
Ok I’m about to do something that rarely happens in blogs, or ever for that matter. I’m going to appologize and restate my points. First off, I truly hold no negative sentiments towards Canada and her citizens. Good people. My comments were merely a continuation of the “banter” that America endures from the world, and I’m being polite here. We are so used to being called horrible names that my implication of Canadians being cowards was intended with the same jocularity that brothers and sisters often enjoy. Oh, for the canadians who are bashing American military action, think twice; your brave servicemen and women have generally been with us through it all. Let’s face it, the US and Canada have each others backs, which is the way it should be.
For those who said this horrible tragedy could happen anywhere, you are absolutely correct. This shit can and does happen everywhere. I’m going to take a leap of faith for a moment and suggest that what many of us, including myself, are reacting to is the seemingly unusual number of tragic incidents lately that involved what was ARGUEABLY gross misjudgements, inaction or outright caliousness. IE: The Italians who sunbathed among dead Roma children; New York City’s Kings Hospital where a women died on the floor of a waiting room while others literally sat and watched (Yup that would be us Americans), and of course our tragic topic of discussion.
And to respond to some of the highly informed responses to my earlier post: Well I’m not religious (and never mentioned it), I do have personal experience of which I feel no need to re-live for your benifit (I wasn’t always a cook), I also never said I would do better I just KNOW that I would try. And finally the passengers did act intelligently and wisely. Fortunately no one else will suffer the same fate by that lunatics hands. I simply wish someone had tried, just tried.
And just a parting piece of advice. Don’t assume. Ever. Be good to each other and may the family find peace. Once again, all appologies. Much love Canada.
Hey, you started the sarcasm train, bucko, and I’m all for a free ride at your expense.
As for MRK, that’s not true, as was said before, American response to similar situations has been quite nearly the same, with the exception of the fact that most Americans that wouldn’t have a response, wouldn’t have bothered calling the authorities either.
Where the AK is concerned, that’s a bit stereotypical. Should I end this sentence with “aye” to make my point?
What can I say. As a canuck we’re not that used to homicidal idiots on every street corner. Thats just one of the other differences between Canada & the US.
Look at what bloodlust gets you, an illegal war in Iraq, thousands dead; all thaks to a moron that was re-elected as president.
One note to “Tree Hugging Sister” they did’nt show up unitl the end of WW1, missing such events as The Somme; 50,000 troops killed in one day. They might have ran back home.
“I’m all for a free ride at your expense.”
Would I be wrong in pointing out the irony in this stereotypical American attitude?
While I agree with the norm/psychopath ratio comment D, the illegal war comment is quite inane, ditto with the WW1 comment. Here’s why:
Your argument is that the war is illegal, when history has proven the legality of war is always determined by the victor (seeing as they are generally the ones writing the history books afterwards). As for WW1, you argue we entered a war illegally, and then bring this up? We stood back, analyzed and then entered (which is exactly what the canadian gov’t argued for with Iraq)…so, we’re wrong on both accounts because it doesn’t suit your argument? Gotta be one or the other kid, sorry.
The correct expression is “eh?”, Ebola, just for the record.
Sorry, was just going phonetically, didn’t think it was worth lookin up. =P
Oh, please. Give me a break. Canadians are p$@##&s for not jumping the guy? How many stories are there of Canadian women being raped while entire neighborhoods ignored their screams? How many stories in Canadian indifference? It us – the Americansd (Yes, I’m reluctantly admitting that I’m American) who embarrass ourselves with indifference and ignorance (see this thread for evidence) on a regular basis.
Of course I hope I would jump in and try to save a helpless victim. But I’m ot the one woken from a nap in a very small space by the scream of a man being attacked by a psycho. By evacuating the bus, they probably saved more lives. It’s tragic that Mr. McLean was murdered. But I truly believe that if anyone had tried to help before securing the situation, there would have been more fatalities.
(Apparently, we ebarrass ourselves with a lack of proofreading, too. Sorry!)
Well, actually D a “free ride” in the context in which it’s commonly used typically means its free “because” its at the expense of someone else. Not ironic at all.
Anyways being American myself “irrelevant though” I can’t say I would have reacted one way or another in the moment of the attack since god gave me no more courage then the next guy. I do find it extremely arrogant of anyone to criticize anyone else for what they did or didn’t do in such a horrible situation. Lest it be a child being attacked I may have been the first off the bus, don’t know. I have seen to many news reports in this country where someone is being attacked in the middle of the day and no one see’s anything.
Fist of all, it seems that it matters to state where you are from in all of this… I’m from Ontario, Canada. I don’t care if you’re Canadian or American, the fact that people are trying to prove others wrong and arguing about facts that don’t seem to really matter is disgusting. Anyone can say that they would do this or they would do that. You weren’t there! I have no idea what I would do in a situation like that and I hope I never have to find out.
Everyone from Canada says that there are a lot of American idiots… I say Canada has a lot of idiots too… The United States just have more because of a great population.
Proud to be North American…
I like the tactic of interjecting trite American stereotypes and the Iraq War (very analogous to this situation….) in attempts to make points. Defensive much, eh?
I never mentioned anything about if this would have happened in America at all, I said Texas, completely different place. And yes I’m very sure of what I would do in this type of situation, Very Sure.
Some additional details here.
Ride away Ebola, I just wanted to demonstrait that not all Americans are assholes, at least not all the time. Thank you for supporting my point (insert sarcasm). I hope you have a lot of stripes my friend. You speak like a brash young officer, who perhaps thinks a bit too highly of themselves. I served with attempted draft dodgers who demonstraited more respect than you. Ok that may be going a bit far but you get the drift. Your experience is wonderful (not sarcasm), but really, must you critique every response. Try listening more. You might actually hear something.
I’m very sure what I would do, too:
Pee my pants. And I’m from NJ, and as much as you Texans like to think you’re tough…
To quote a book I pretty much never quote: Judge not, lest you be judged. You can pretend to be sure, but until you’re standing next to a 6′ tall psycho covered in blood and holding a butcher knife, you don’t know.
BraVO and good on ’em! THAT’s the story that needs to be told.
Unless you were on the bus.. you should not talk about what the others on the bus could have done. Put yourself in the 37 passengers shoes. I know that if I was them I think I would have crapped my pants and would have wanted to get off the bus before I would have thought to go after a man with a knife
The armchair heroes on this blog are suffering from delusions of grandeur. In hind sight, in this case, the very idea that any one of those passengers could have saved that unfortunate young man from that no-conscience, deranged murderer is preposterous. Suggesting that 30 people should have just rushed to the back of the bus where the madman was wielding his butcher knife into the victim and simply taken it from his hand?? Or, throw articles at the guy to render his knife from his hand?? Are you seriously suggesting that is what YOU would have done?? You have no clue what you’re talking about. Judging those passengers so harshly and to call them “pusseys” shows just how deluded you are. In the confined narrow space of the bus isle, it’s already getting dark, you’re half asleep or waking up from being asleep, you spontaneously run to the victim who is already gone to save him?? Wake up from your hero dream, and get back to reality people!!
Kudos to those passengers on the bus for handling the situation in the manner they did.
We should all be grateful for the 3 heroes: bus passenger Caton, the bus driver and the truck driver for containing the murderer in the bus till police arrived so that no other victims could be had by him.
I find it curious that you would call me a brash young officer, coward. Why? Well, because I’ve done nothing but support my point of view, which was that the passengers did the correct thing. Not once have I said, “Were I in that situation, I would have pulled out my RPG, stuck it in his bum, and pulled the trigger. Then I would have proceeded to dance a bloody jig while I memorialized my heroic event upon that very spot.” As a matter of fact, I haven’t even insinuated what my response would have been, because in all honesty, having not been in that situation, I’ve no idea. Perhaps you should attempt your own advice and actually read my responses in their entirety. I’m all for the preservation of human life, if perhaps not by methods other seem to, in my mind hypocritically and/or non-analytically, condone.
You somehow suggest, in an ironic manner just as highhanded as you accuse me of mine, that I should bow to your point of view, simply because you have it? How communist of you.
As for why I respond so often? Because I’m sitting in my office bored as hell at the moment and this is something that interests me. Any other questions?
Exactly, Angie.
I mean, imagine it. Not only is there this psycho and his victim, but at least one 6-year-old child and elderly woman, both of whom we have to assume would not rush in to jump the attacker and who mich have actually tried to get away. So now, we expect the other 30-some passengers to trample the kid and the old lady?
They acted with common sense – far more that I can confidently assert that I would have acted with.
creatrix, they nearly did trample one lady
Mr. Caton ran to the front of the bus and screamed at the driver to stop. The bus pulled to the side of the highway about 20 kilometres east of Portage la Prairie. Some passengers needed to be roused from sleep or shock, but within seconds they were all on their feet and pushing towards the front, knocking one woman over as they fled the attacker, who stabbed his victim in the chest, neck, arms, legs and stomach.
I’m confused. All of the apologists and pacifists keep saying: “… but … but he was already dead!”
If he was already dead – how was he able to scream?
———
And enough with the blanket generalizations. This is a discussion about the people on the bus, not some broad-brush analysis of entire countries.
Yeah, Mr. Bingley. Good point. But she and the child and the rest of the passengers are safe. If there had been people running in two different directions down the aisle, I’m not sure that would have been the outcome.
PB, I agree. But it does sound like it was over pretty quickly. I thnk the rule of thumb is to control the situation first, and at that point, with 35 terrified people all in a very small space with a knife-weilding psycho, the situation was very much NOT in control. For starters, now we know this was a lone guy. But if you are on the bus, how do you know he doesn’t have a partner in another part of he bus? All they knew was that they were in mortal danger, and they didn’t necessarily know from whom. They needed to be able to assess the situation and keep as many people safe as possible.
This is a discussion about the people on the bus, not some broad-brush analysis of entire countries.
correct.
Why do everybody keep saying there were 30 cowards and all that stuff? Wherever you are in the world, some people will be brave and try to save others, but the majority will run for their lives.
As for people saying the quick and clean war by destroying everything in a given territory…
Can I remind you that there weren’t much casualties before the first World War. An army in front of another army, the last army with men alive won, non-armed person were taken prisonner (probably rapped too)(I admit, was stupid war, but not killing everyone)
As for peace never happening, I agree that some people are blinded by peace as for it will never happen, but why, just based on this fact, to continue war cause we know peace will never be there?
Not sure I understand your point fully Max. Are you asking why we consider continuing our current wars? Or making war in the future? The reasons why are legion. Changes for each conflict. If you’re talking why do we continue to maintain a presence in Afghanistan or Iraq? Honestly to me it’s not even a matter of what started it, it’s that pulling out would in the end cost more lives than keeping a presence until they can police themselves.
I know there’s gonna be someone to say it, so yes, and companies and gov’t’s will enjoy staying there to make money and tighten strings as well. That’s how the world rumbles. I don’t believe it’s intelligent not to strike out and do war when necessity (as I believe we might be quickly approaching with Iran) dictates. Was entering Iraq a gross overextension of power? Yes. And especially considering the sociopolitical terrain now. Point is, we’re there now, and we need to consolidate what gains we have, both for our own sake and theirs. Learn from the past to plan for the future.
Now, BOTH of you ~ stick to the bus. Please.
Sorry mum, she made me curious. =P
Thank God someone else saw this as I did. My initial response was WFT. I cannot believe a busload of people just ran off the bus and left that man to be beheaded. SHAME ON EVERY ONE OF YOU. That young man was only a few years older than my son. It sickens me.
PLEASE FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY DON’T FALL ASLEEP ON A GREYHOUND BUS!!!
Posted by: DJ at August 1, 2008 11:46 AM
Yes, thank God someone else is as stupid as you are. The kid was probably long dead before people even figured out what the hell was going on. The beheading definitely occured afterwards. Get your head out of your ass and drop the manufactured outrage over an event you’re not even familiar with.
Listen Twitties!
I’m a Dudley Do Rite and I HAVE saved the lives of at least 8 men and children in my time , putting myself in personal danger to do it.
And I WOULDN’T jump in to help the guy without assessing the situation first.
It make sense for a bunch of passengers to rush some terrorist on Flight 93 cause they HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE. It makes sense to tackle a guy with a gun cause he can SHOOT YOU IF YOU WALK AWAY.
To rush INTO the close one person aisle front range of a knife wielding psycho who has already killed someone , well that is only something I guess an American would do. And I would encourage you to go first.
By the way, we won both the First AND Second world wars. You blew 1812, Korea, Nam and Iraq.
The only war you won was when you were klling each other in 1865.
I just read more of what happend on the bus from a link here.
After everyone was off the bus an attempt to go back on was made, but the guy with the knife came towards the front again.They got off, blocked the door and kept him from getting away.
To me it seems, very quickly most people became level headed and in control for such a horrific situation.
I also think with the amount of blood that must have been involved, there was probubly a presumption that the man was already dead. ( which would seem correct ) In the panic of the moment we act on instinct.It is not until we have a moment to access a situation that we can react with intent, and until people were off the bus, fully awake and able to think clearly time passed..Sounds like a short time
From what I read keeping this mad man on the bus and making sure he isn’t at large right now was nothing short of bravery.
Their ordeal is not over..This will be a lifetime of trauma for everyone on the bus. Years of asking themselves the “what ifs”..And none of us were there and none of us have the answers.
Being judgmental and critical is just ridiculous.
Yes, thank God someone else is as stupid as you are. The kid was probably long dead before people even figured out what the hell was going on. The beheading definitely occured afterwards. Get your head out of your ass and drop the manufactured outrage over an event you’re not even familiar with.
I’m stupid cuz of mine and looks like the majority has an opinion on something I obviously read about? you piece of shit. You were not on the bus so your assumption that he was dead is an assumption. I read the witness’ statement. The guy screamed before they all jumped up and left him there. so fuck you my opinion as a person who graduated college with honors (not stupid cs) is that someone should have done something CUZ DEAD PEOPLE DONT SCREAM
I find it so interesting how you have judged the situation from your comfortable homes and from behind a computer.
Canada does not have this type of violence normally and therefore our reaction is not an automatic “let’s jump him” or “grab your gun and get him”.
I would be more concerned that this person didn’t hurt anyone else, then to put everyone in jeopardy because I felt I needed to be a super hero and take on a man with a butcher knife.
This man was 6 feet tall and weighed 200 lbs and attacked the victim so quickly that even if you were successful at getting the weapon out of his hand, the victim would already be dead.
How very American to make this about how “courageous” you would be and not about how terrifying this must have been to everyone on that bus.
Fight or flight is an instinctual action and I think that every person on that bus made the right decision.
But go back to your stereotypes and your judging and make yourselves feel like heroes.
Bravery is not the absence of fear but the ability to face and overcome it.
This is the best definition of bravery I can come up with.
Does that definition fit with the actions of the people who were on that bus?
There is not now, nor has there ever been, to my knowledge, any visible security on any Greyhound bus line traveling anywhere; also, there is very little on trains, or any other form of public transporation. I have traveled on the bus recently and I was nervously apprehensive throughout the entire trip. There have been several “strange”, injurious or deadly incidents on Greyhound busses in recent years. All you have to do to board public transportation is be able to pay the fare. Also, keeping in mind that most mental institutions have closed or are so overcrowded that they are not available to the individuals that need them. So, the math on that indicates that there are too many people with mental and spiritual problems navigating our streets and public transportation systems, free to do whatever, whenever. I would immediately suggest that if one is traveling and owns a law enforcement uniform, even a security guard shirt, perhaps it would help to wear it. I also think that there should be “roaming” undercover agents/cops/security that Greyhound should hire to sit at or near the back of the bus to monitor behavior of patrons — particularly, since the bus driver’s back is to the riders. There should be rules about tolerated behavior, and people should be put off the bus if they do not comply; this should be common knowledge among riders and it should be enforced. Even deranged people tend to act noticeably different when they believe they will be put off public transportation in the middle of nowhere. Nevertheless, as we were told, even after committing such a heinous crime and being covered in another person’s blood, the murderer could still reason, and understood that he was now confined to the bus and that the authorities had been notified and were enroute. Decidedly, he tried to “escape” his impending capture and likely incarceration and subsequent consequences by atempting to escape out of a bus window. Psychopath or not, he understood that message of authorities being called, and he understood that his destiny was dependent on his ability to escape the powers that be. There recognize deterents, even in their perverted judgment. Just saying that in passing. And I whole-heartedly agree with the person who said NEVER, EVER go to sleep on any kind of public transportation. You should never let your guard down, because you may need ALL of your wits about you at any given time — because you DON”T know the history or the current state of mind of the stranger sitting next to you. As for whether the people were cowards or not, I suppose it could have gone either way — there could have been more bloodshed or perhaps the victim’s life could have been saved by people trying to subdue the attacker. I suppose if it were you or your relative, you would have hoped that someone would have helped, because the situation demanded help. That’s all I will say on that. This is very traumatic in alot of ways. I am very sorry for the victim and his family.
HEY D.J.!
You ARE proof that Dead People DO Scream!
You got Honours? AND Reproduced TOO?
What University did you get your degree from?
Grammer Is Us Sho Nuff Uniniversitaaa?
Let us not forget that bravery and stupidity are not mutually exclusive. Just because someone has the cajones to rush a knife-wielding psycho does NOT mean it is the smart thing to do, and in this instance, I believe it would have been a very stupid thing to do and it would have cost lives.
BurnWashingtonAgain, one more outburst like that and you’re gone, capeche?
You know he was on anti-depressants. Thus the zombie like behavior. It is time that the drug companies and doctor prescribing the drugs start getting tried as accessories to murder in these cases. Enough is enough.
I don’t think this has to do with being an American or Canadian. Just the idea of someone stabbing another person sleeping on a bus is pretty weird and scary. Yes, I thought about why the people on the bus didn’t try to stop the crime, but I thought more about why would someone stab another person like that for no apparent reason? There was nothing wrong with the people who ran off the bus. I think that was normal, like a Fight or Flight response, it was the human thing to do. Yes fear, so flee. Protect your own life. But after everything has happened, it’s easy to say, “oh I should have done this…or that…” but it already happened. Who would expect something like this would happen? Just riding a bus! No one is prepared. It’s not expected, unless you know that someone riding in the bus is a gang member or trouble maker, then you know you can be on your guard. Otherwise this was a surprise for everyone.
True dat.
Jail the doctor… do you have ANY idea how many more people become murderous because the REFUSE to take their meds? What we need is an overhaul of the mental health system. I don’t know the laws in Canada, but in the States, we cannot legally force someone to take meds until AFTER they have committed a violent crime. Add to that the fact that we have virtually no system in place for assuring that the poor have access to mental healthcare and people cannot be committed against their will, and those meds you are so quick to demonize become our last hope.
True dat, too. I read somewhere else that mental health issues aren’t considered serious for the average person. My comment would be that it’s only serious for the family and friends who have to deal with the issues and pain created by the mentally impaired with no recourse and NO protection.
The pills are FINE, BUT!
How do you get them to take them? There’s no mechanism for that.
ok—Canada does not have this type of violence normally –this is crap. you have serial killers –(check out the crimelibrary right here on cnn.) just like us. You have feet washing up on your shores that your cops cant figure out. unlike us. Now you have psychos on buses (guess what) just like us. They are everywhere. You got we got em we are pretty even. I would have written what I wrote no matter where this happened.
Blue Jeans, I love your definition of bravery, sista
HEY D.J.!
You ARE proof that Dead People DO Scream!
You got Honours? AND Reproduced TOO?
What University did you get your degree from?
Grammer Is Us Sho Nuff Uniniversitaaa?
Posted by: BurnWashingtonAgain at August 1, 2008 04:51
you wanna make this personal asswhole? You feel like a big TYPER being so nasty online?
what r u some stumpy little man with a 2 inch pecker and a 400 pound wife or is it the other way around?
Is that what you want you piece of shit? There you go you got it.
D, behave yourself. It’s been addressed.
i know you guys have been arguin about how quick this all went down with the whole dead people screaming thing…but the way i have thought about it goes sorta like yes the victim did scream, but that was probably very immediately before he was stabbed enough times beyond saving…the way i figure it, by the time the screaming happened…and people realized what was happening it was probably too late…im not sayin this is what happened…just the way i picture it
I apologize and thank you.
My pleasure. It’s been a really good back and forth. We can keep it pretty civil however fiercely we press our points.
Well, it’s possible. I think maybe shock could be a part of it too. It bothers me. That is how I feel. They fled. Maybe that was the best thing to do. But people, smart or stupid, do brave things everyday. On 911 a retired service ran into one of the towers and helped people out. Smart, stupid? Isn’t really the question is it? Brave and compassionate is the answer. Call me what you want but in every corner of this world we need more people to step up for each other or the patients will be running the asylum.
Right D.J.
Like I said, you first, down the aisle,
on the knife, be brave.
And compassionate. And dead.
Dead and brave and compassionate. With honours too.
It is terrible that this devisive, violent, but as his lawyer would try to say insane, person murdered this man and could probably just get committed. First-degree murder, not second. The victim and his family did not deserve this. I must agree as a human you get scared but you should have courage to react, to help your fellow man even if it seems futile. It seems unbelievable for so many to watch and listen to someone suffer and not help. I’m a female and have witnessed violence and people do get involved-not superheroes, probably never witnessed a crime before, just trying to stop the perpertrator; that is a natural, humane reaction. Where were the men?
Hey Burn,
I am going to voice my opinion whether you like it or not.
I find what you just wrote to be as offensive as the last thing. Sounds kinda threatning.
Why don’t you write your opinion on the subject matter and not abuse me because I dont agree.
Try that.
Burn washington that is really abusive too. mmmm I am seeing a pattern here.
Burn here is a man. LMFAO!!! I would bet money on that!!
Well, FHB, for sure Mr. Caton was the first to act, he tried to get help and, when he couldn’t, had the presence of mind to get the bus stopped and people off, along with the bus driver. Then the truck driver stopped independently, and the three of them acted with tremendous courage and clarity of thought. The details emerging in subsequent news reports have answered the questions we originally had.
Who else in the group huddled at the back of the bus who might have lent a hand? I guess we’ll never know. And that’s okay.
dj, I think the phrase is “don’t feed the troll”.
Nobody wakes up in the morning and thinks that they are going to die that day, unless they are seriously contemplating suicide — even though it may ultimately end up being their date of death. An innocent bus trip should never have ended up ushering the tragic end of someone’s life. I repeat — I have noticed that the bus company never acknowledges the need for any “change” that needs to be made. It almost seems like it is “acceptable behavior” or “expected behavior” or “tolerable beahvior” because people catch the bus. It merely continues to take riders’ money, as it has for years, with no apparent sense of resonsibility for their riders’ safety and protections, and now it is time for them to make sure that the patrons are, at least to a degree, protected — and they should feel safe, like they are protected. With rising airplane fares and gasoline costs, ridership could likely increase quickly and exponentially. Whereas, these practices were not necessarily a problem before, of late it has become a problem, and yet, it is never addressed, no remedies, no stopguards, no solutions, no possible solutions, are proposed for future riders. You may never have to catch a bus, but given the circumstances, how much comfort would you experience riding Greyhound, tomorrow. Or, perhaps, because it is the “poor man’s method of transportation,” it is an issue that should be treated as it has been in the past — just ignored. The prices ARE a good deal for the money, but the cost of a ticket is not worth the price a life.
posting from Edmonton, Alberta. This is where the psycho got on the bus, I am just glad he killed the victem in a different province, because if it would have happened here
…oh, he did not mean it, he is from a disadvantaged background, he needs love and support… a couple of years in a mental hospital and he would be free.
I am not making this up, our Province usually lets these types of with little more than a slap on the wrist
All I can say is if I ever have to travel on a Greyhound bus, I’m carrying a pocket taser.
one thing that must be corrected. regarding Matt’s post a few hours back about Kitty Genovese – he is way off on the facts. 30 people did not watch the attack from the safety of their windows. people heard screams and all assumed someone else would call the police. A couple witnessed the attack and called out to the attacker who then fled. check your facts friend
I’ve been reading through the comments above and things seem to have settled down (somewhat anyway). Hopefully, we can get past this anti-American / anti-Canadian mud slinging. Violent crime (and how it is dealt with) is a problem in both countries. While overall homicide and crime rates may be lower in Canada, the largest cities closest to where this horrible event happened (ie, Winnipeg, Regina and Saskatoon) have some of the worst per capita violent crime rates in North America. The Canadian magazine Maclean’s noted that based on 2006 statistics Winnipeg, Regina and Saskatoon would be among North America’s top ten most dangerous cities for violent crime (excluding homicides) and robberies.
I still think that unless you were on that bus (ie, in exactly the same circumstances as those passengers) you cannot call these people cowards. In an absolutely ideal world someone well trained or very experienced in close quarters hand to hand combat would have been sitting very close to the attacker … and would have been on top of the guy immediately. In reality the bus was filled with a lot of tired, regular folks who experienced something absolutely horrific (well beyond what is part of “normal” life in North America) in an extremely short amount of time. I think they did the best they could under truly awful and terrible circumstances.
This talk about bravery and heroes reminds me of something that happened 130 miles and twenty years (and four days) from the site of this horrible killing. On July 23, 1983 an Air Canada 767 carrying 69 passengers and crew ran out of fuel in mid-flight at altitude over the Ontario / Manitoba border. Skill, luck and bravery allowed the flight crew to make an extremely difficult dead stick landing (no engine power from 28,000 ft down) at an abandoned military airfield in Gimli, Manitoba. Everyone on board survived a situation that could easily have turned catastrophic. I saw an interview with the pilot who landed the airplane. Despite all his training and confidence in his abilities he basically said that until this situation happened he didn’t know how he would respond in an emergency (life and death) situation … he had to go through it to know what he would do. And this is a guy who was trained to deal with potentially dire circumstances that might arise while doing his job. AGAIN, HE SAID HE DIDN’T KNOW HOW HE WOULD REACT UNTIL REAL WORLD CIRCUMSTANCES WERE UPON HIM.
I don’t think it’s right or reasonable to judge the response of untrained, inexperienced people thrust very quickly in to an extremely unexpected, complicated and violent situation. We should hope that all attackers are always subdued with absolutely minimal fatalities and injuries. Every such situation is different, however, and unless you were there (or in a very similar situation) right of judgment is not yours.
I agree with tree on this. I used to ride a greyhound to visit family as a child. My mother would put me and my sister on it alone and my grandparents or an aunt would be waiting on the other end. What happened during the ride was never mentioned. The truth is my sister and I had been offered drugs more than once during those trips. It was a bit scary but I had someone with me and we just stuck together. As an adult and a parent I would not put my child on a bus alone.
This makes me sick, most of you Heroes sitting at your computers would have soiled your pants in the same situation, Lets remember there were children on that bus and just maybe they were more concerned with the lives of there families. 99.9% of you that claim you would have tried to grab this guy with a machette would have soiled your pants if you were there.
To all of the brilliant Americans who seem to think that the people on the bus were cowards … these comments coming from a nation that has people sending Anthrax messages and then committing suicide, or watching people die alone in hospital emergency rooms or standing by while someone dies in the street … take a good look in the mirror.
I am a Canadian – but with American roots and a daughter who was born in USA 😉 I’ve lived in both countries and have worked in the Criminal Justice system so hopefully my comments will not be able to be judged as anti-anyone….I think that the probably like you, Mr. Canton wishes he had done more, thinks he might have been able to do more, etc, etc. He’s likely gone through the events 1000 times over — saying things like “he was already dead” are probably also away of trying to settle things in his own mind. Maybe of trying to make himself believe it as well — I’m sure he is experiencing unimaginable guilt. Although I don’t think he should be – From what I read – the first stab wound was to the neck — likely Tim screamed after the first or even 2 and 3 time — but think of how many times you can stab someone in a 10-20 second period. Likely enough to fatally wound him before Mr. Canton could even get out of his seat.
Sad sad situation….
Yeah… Here’s a great example of how an heroic American would have done things differently…
Well, Scott, you could have picked a better example.
Read the thing FIRST, dolt.
You first guy: “By the time the ambulance had left the scene, Singh said, almost a dozen people had witnessed some part of the incident, with at least two trying to physically stop the suspect”.
Your opinion is that 30 people should have been able to fend off a guy at the back of a bus with a knife, when a dozen couldn’t fend off an unarmed guy in the middle of the road.
From one dolt to another…
Excellent point Scott —- they also had about 20 or more minutes to think about it!!!!
with at least two trying to physically stop the suspect
The point, DOLT, is that SOMEONE tried. Which is all we’ve been talking about this entire thread that you’ve come so late to: why didn’t someone TRY and it turns out ONE fellow did and found others to help him. Out of 35.
As did those cowering outside the bus, Canada girl, when those three brave guys were blocking the door alone, while the lunatic slashes through the cracks.
I don’t dispute that fact, DOLT. What I take issue with is the macho posturing taken by a large number of posters. Posturing which didn’t quite get the job done in my cited article.
Tree Hugging Sister Posted This:
Brave Canadians are perishing in Afganistan every day!
Indeed they are and bless their brave hearts!
Others, however, were running off a bus.
Tree Hugger,you make me sick you Old Lady.
You have to have a gun ,be with a thousand other armed guys, and under the threat of execution for dereliction of duty to be BRAVE?
Thats a version of brave that you and Ebola must have worked on together.
Caton didn’t have a gun. He tried, and if you notice, he kept a lunatic from harming 29 other passengers. In American Idol Land, he’d already be having a ticker tape parade.
Here in Canada, we will just quietly appreciate his common sense, and cherish him for being one of ours.
An aside: that poor baby died at night with people driving by. How many people might have seen something but had no clue? Who’s to say what they would have done had they known? No one I guess. BUT, LIKE the POINT of the POST, I would HOPE someone would act. And apparently a couple did.
And the cop didn’t say “well, the baby’s already dead”. He shot him.
Burn, I don’t think you could appreciate a thing quietly, because you don’t add a thing to the conversation but flames. And you’re done.
And they would have shot the guy on the bus too if he had gone at them, etc — instead there was a couple thousand pounds of metal between them and him. A little hard to hit that target! They likely would have LOVED to have killed him on the spot after the fact — that certainly would have made the news too! But, for obvious reasons couldn’t and didn’t.
Also — are the other 10 who drove on by while dad drop kicked his babies not cowards as well? Only 2 tried to help in this case — and this A$$hole didn’t even have a knife!!!
No one expected to “get the job done”, or are you just willfully obtuse? All one asked is why didn’t they try. The “posturing” as you put is was all about TRYING, dolt.
They tried in your article, and Mr. Caton and the others tried in Canada, as we’ve consequently found out and lauded with all our hearts.
Well I can understand your point. However I think you can agree that having not been involved in either situation directly ourselves, we cannot know if either outcome could have been different.
And I do HOPE you get your caps lock button fixed soon. 😉
So, where’s the argument? They TRIED. That’s all you could ever ask of anyone. Some people are capable and some aren’t. But if something horrible beyond words happens to you, or close to you, wouldn’t you pray for someone to at least TRY?
And never ever said one could. Only that we wished someone would try and wanted to understand why it seemed as if no one had. We found out later they had, bless their hearts.
And I like my caps. {8^P
Tree hugging sister — I think what you are saying now is that now you know that some TRIED you are ok with that? I’d be ok with this if you didn’t call the others cowards but then ask where my arguement was re: the father — there were cowards in this case too. I guess my point is everyone’s not a hero — as it was said, maybe some who drove by didn’t even know what was going on — I agree — but the same arguement holds true in this case. Not everyone could have known what was going on in the bus….
Nor do we know everyone else’s story — I for one think that the mother who made sure her child was safe before worrying about herself is also a hero! What about those who stopped to help the lady up who fell instead of just trampling her to death — are they not TRYING to help as well?
Boy has this hit a nerve! Been away for awhile. Glad the U.S. vs Canada had died down, that was never the point. I’m sure there is a plethora of cases on both sides where people did nothing. The point being that there is always the 10% that, in Marine Corps speak, never gets the word, is constantly screwing up or, on the other side, does remarkable deeds. In this case you would hope somebody anybody would stand up and try to stop this guy. Looks like somebody did, tried to anyway. Most people are cowardly, can’t argue that but you can argue that there are those that run towards the threat while everybody else is running away and those are the men and women we all count on when things go bad. So enough of the individual bashing just agree most don’t have the brass to do anything in a situation like this unless led by someone who does. I think it still boils down to my original idea about 170 or so comments ago, somebody, trained and with a gun could have taken this bastard out, I know that is not an option up North. My apologies to the anti-gun types.
True – someone could have taken him out (someone one the bus) if they had a gun. Like you said, not an option up here though….
Interesting point on this and even more sad if that’s possible. His parents were notified by the media! I’m not sure when they were even able to get ahold of his mom — his dad was interviewed today saying they were still trying to get in touch with his wife who is on a cruise in Alaska.
I agree with you — if you’re trained to deal with life/death situations as you would be in the Marines you’d certainly be more likely to do something. A mom on the bus with her toddler, a six year old, and the average Joe — likely never dreamed they’d ever face something like this.
Evidently one of the individuals who did try to help was part of the forces — this also proves you point in my opinion.
You would have a really hard time showing where I did. Never. Ever. And you’re darn right I’m okay with what those guys did. I’m okay with someone TRYING. (Sorry, Scott.)
And if what you’ve just said about the poor kid’s folks is TRUE? Dear God. How HORRIBLE.
Oh. My. God.
Travesty upon tragedy.
As did those cowering outside the bus, Canada girl, when those three brave guys were blocking the door alone, while the lunatic slashes through the cracks.
7:52 PM — “those cowering” this isn’t calling them cowards?
Here is the post re: his parents —
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080731/Manitoba_victim_080801/20080801?hub=TopStories
I’m trying to find the story about his mom…..
In that context, you’re right. In my defense, I used it in the “to shrink away or crouch especially for shelter from something that menaces, domineers, or dismays” sense, which they were doing, leaving those three guys to protect them.
I honestly thought you were talking about the very beginning of the conversation, concerning events ON the bus. My bad.
Here’s the post about his mom — my mistake, evidently they hadn’t reached her last night not today…..so I would hope by now they’ve gotten her home.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/08/01/stabbing-victim.html
From Canada girl’s link:
No offense taken – thanks for clearing that up 🙂
From my other link
“Father trying to reach wife
McLean’s father, Tim McLean Sr., told CBC News on Thursday night that he was in the process of trying to get confirmation from the police that his son was, in fact, the victim.
He said he was also trying to reach his wife, who is on an Alaskan cruise until next week.”
Your links were awful, but illuminating. Thanks, Canada girl. Our hearts go out to them.