Hey, You Preening, Pedantic Pustule!
Obama looking to give new life to immigration reform
…According to a person familiar with the meeting, the White House may ask Schumer and Graham [ths: f*ckin’ WEASEL] to at least produce a blueprint that could be turned into legislative language.
The basis of a bill would include a path toward citizenship for the 10.8 million people living in the U.S. illegally.
When do you start to worry about the CITIZENS already here?
Jobs, d*ckweed. For an awesomely awesome super-genius, you sure have your priorities ass backwards. Not “weatherization”, not “healthcare”, not “ee-ville bankers”, not “green” anything, not western land grabs and, now, sure as hell not ILLEGAL f*cking “immigrants”.
Jobs for AMERICANS should be JOB ONE.
The day YOU’RE unemployed, on the other hand, cannot come soon enough.
UPDATE: If I can find this obvious truth easily, where’s the White House looking?
… “There are a lot of small businesses that don’t have much demand. They don’t need tax breaks, they need customers.”
Or are they?
Life, Morality, Nanny State, People, Politics | tree hugging sister | 
March 5, 2010 12:37 pm
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The only ‘jobs’ he’s concerned about are for Democratic politicians, and he knows that a goodly portion of these 10.8 million would become Democratic voters.
I don’t understand the anti-immigration mind set.
I don’t worry about immigrants competing with me for a job. If you can’t win out over someone who can’t speak English and has no education, then you’re really pathetic.
This highlights the problems of socialism. We pay these people to come here and get free educations, free medical care, and other benefits that WE pay for. If it didn’t cost us anything, most Americans would simply not be bothered by more immigrants being in the country.
My grandmother and grandfather were immigants and I wish a lot more people would come here and get whatever vestiges of freedom that remains in this nation.
But I don’t want to give them money. They can pay their own way, and they usually can.
Open the borders, I’m not afraid of them. I welcome them from wherever they may come, the more the merrier.
Just end socialism.
It’s not an “anti-immigration mindset”, Skyler. It’s an “anti-ILLEGAL immigration mindset”.
There’s a huge difference. Want to immigrate? Fine. Do it legally, pay taxes, earn your citizenship. There’s a standing process for that. Happens every day.
Moochers? Not so welcome. Just ask Mexico…..who has exactly the OPPOSITE policy of the United States.
Skyler, Skyler, Skyler ~ we’ve been through this a million times. It’s exactly as JeffS says and, as the great grandchild (as well as daughter-in-law) of LEGAL immigrants, it would be the height of hypocrisy for me to crack on LEGAL immigrants. But the fact that they WERE legal immigrants, waited for all the proper LEGAL paperwork, etc., instead of a stealth run across the border ahead of the millions who might be just as desperate, but willing to do it LEGALLY…pegs my pity meter for the lawbreakers.
With what’s going on in this country at the moment, getting AMERICANS back to work should keep Mr. Awesomely Awesome awake at nights.
I don’t believe in rewarding criminals to the detriment of legal citizens.
So make it legal, JeffS. Why is that hard?
Here’s a good question. If you jaywalk, what is the punishment? Do they make you walk back across the street?
So if you come here illegally, what should be the punishment? Pay a fine? Yeah, sure. Why not? Why should it be deportation? We should welcome people here to our free country.
Skyler – things would probably get complicated fairly quickly. Legal immigration has controls in place to deport undesirables such as criminals. If you had a general amnesty it would need some sort of provision to process all these people and then send off folks like drug dealers, nascent terrorists, etc. Once you start introducing such controls you essentially put all those folks right into the legal immigration system anyway, so why not just have them go that route? And why not then streamline that route and devote more resources to processing the applications quickly, to further reduce the incentive to just jump the border? In the end, it becomes indistinguishable from actual immigration reform, which is desperately needed.
But what is further needed is a return to the idea that we have the right to expect a certain assimilation and participation in America from prospective citizens. When you say we shouldn’t fear losing all our jobs to unskilled non-English speakers, you have a point – but it’s a literal point. We shouldn’t but in reality we kind of have to, because of the multicultural-uber-alles mindset. It’s over-hospitable, in that the current society default attitude is that we are by definition wrong to prefer our culture to others, and that to prove our virtue in this area, we pretty much have to unfairly handicap ourselves to ensure that immigrants have a “fiar shot” in our society. We demand nothing of them that we do of ourselves – tax contributions, English proficiency, proper educational requirements, etc. Until we get rid of that no amnesty program will do anything but make things worse; and if we do get rid of that no amnesty program would be necessary.
So if they’re a criminal, then put them in jail or let them go back to their country in their jail, if there is a treaty agreement. Being a criminal is not related to not doing the paperwork for entering “legally.”
Do you likewise punish all right-handed people because there are many right-handed criminals?
“Once you start introducing such controls”
Well, get rid of the controls. What good are they?
“so why not just have them go that route?” Yes indeed. Why not?
“But what is further needed is a return to the idea that we have the right to expect a certain assimilation and participation in America from prospective citizens.” Why? Says who? It’s a free country. If I want to speak Portuguese, why is that your business? Why are you trying to control other people and how they live?
” because of the multicultural-uber-alles mindset.” So do you also throw out the baby with the bathwater? We need not have a multicultural über alles mindset.
We need not have absolute amnesty. Like I said, there should be some sort of fine for not obeying an administrative requirement. But all crimes generally have a statute of limitations, excepting extremely serious crimes such as murder. Are we saying that the old Chinese couple or Mexican couple that have been living down the street for the past two decades are really the same grade of criminal as murderers?
This is all smoke and mirrors to justify socialism.
“So make it legal, JeffS. Why is that hard?”
Heck, Skyler, it IS legal. You’re a lawyer, you ought to know that. It’s just that a whole bunch of people don’t want to follow the LEGAL route that CURRENTLY exists.
And why is that so hard, hmmmm?
“But what is further needed is a return to the idea that we have the right to expect a certain assimilation and participation in America from prospective citizens.”
Why? Says who? It’s a free country. If I want to speak Portuguese, why is that your business? Why are you trying to control other people and how they live?
Clever debating trick, but not entirely honest, I daresay. I could just as easily say that if I wanted to pay no taxes while relying on a host of expensive government service, what business is it of anyone else’s? It’s obviously a lot of people’s business, starting with the taxpayers from whom I would in effect be stealing from every day, and the people denied services I had no right to, because I helped deplete those finite resources.
I obviously have no control over other people’s lives, and wouldn’t take it even if it was offered. I’m not talking about incidentals like language and dress and customs, but essentials – at the bare minimum, “assimilation” should mean adhering to the law and being equal under the law to the citizens of that country. I’m pretty sure you agree with me on this, it’s just the means we take to get there that’s the issue.
Along with that, I don’t think it’s controlling to simply live according to our laws and customs and letting people freely decide about the incidentals. It is very controlling, however, to be shamed into conceding my own tastes to avoid offending the easily-aggrieved self-appointed clerisy of elitists and activists who have nothing better to do with themselves than cry “-ISM!” all day long.
To answer your other question, no, I wouldn’t throw out the baby with the bathwater. I’m merely describing what we have now, which is the fastidious attempt to keep the bathwater clean by tossing out the baby. I agree, again, that it need not be multicultural-uber-alles… but in many places, that’s exactly what we’ve got, to the point that people assume that any attempt at enforcing the borders is de facto bigotry.
I’m all for intelligent reform. I have no trouble with law abiding immigrants. Long ago my family was among them. I wouldn’t just start deporting every last mother’s son, especially those who have been here a long time. So, to answer your final question, I wouldn’t punish everyone of a class (immigrants) to catch the criminals… hence the “controls” I mentioned. Don’t punish everyone, but find those who ought to be punished.
PS, it’s funny you mention Portuguese. One of the teams in my hockey league has a number of Portuguese players, they yell instructions to each other in Portuguese all the time. We have a couple of excellent Mexican gentlemen on one of the other teams as well. My contribution to multiculturalism is to get cussed out in a half-dozen or so languages. 🙂
*Was going to make a comment about how “customers” are actually “people who are no longer fearful of losing their jobs, seeing taxes go through the roof, or the economy get much worse” but decides to back slowly away from comments thread instead*
Well, I am a Portagee. I just don’t know the language.
Hi, ricki!
**ths waves from safety of work ‘puter**
Sorry Skyler, but:
Send them back, regardless of a treaty agreement. If they are here illegally they must be sent back.
I’m sorry, but this is simply insane. Why not say “being a tax cheat (like Tim Geithner) is not related to paying your taxes.” If there’s a LAW that says “in order to enter this country/apply for citizenship” etc then, well, yes in fact not doing the paperwork but rather sneaking across the border does in fact make you a criminal.
Shamu called; he’s hungry and he’d like his red herrings back. Seriously, that line makes no sense what so ever.
“Once you start introducing such controls”
In one sense, I agree: laws are useless unless they are enforced.
indeed, let them all follow the laws and respect our laws if they want to emigrate here.
I’m not trying to control it at all. I think voce pode fala tudo o portuguese que voce quer…in your home and business. BUT I think that all official government actions/functions should be in english.
we need to have a base, a common foundation for our laws and society. And we do: the english language. it’s not unreasonable to expect, nay demand that those who wish to partake and contribute to our society have a basic command of it.
look, despite your love of hyperbole i agree it’s not practical to deport 15 million people. The ones who are here for and have committed other crimes must be deported; for the remainder who’ve been here say 5+ years we should come up with a way for them to gain legal status provided they learn english. But we simply must enforce and secure our borders and immediately deport all who cross/enter illegally. we are a country of laws and they must be enforced.
er, no, it’s enforcing our laws. your ancestors, my ancestors, came here because they wanted to become americans. those are the people we should welcome with open arms. we have every right to reject the people who come here simply because they want to have Guadalajara or Karachi minus the murder rates and honor killings.
“we need to have a base, a common foundation for our laws and society.”
Yes, it’s called the Constitution and free enterprise.
“we have every right to reject the people who come here simply because they want to have Guadalajara or Karachi minus the murder rates and honor killings.”
Wow. This country was founded by smugglers and tax evaders. Sam Adams was a rough equivalent of a union thug who organized the longshoremen of Boston to riot. None of the people who came here when this country was founded asked for anyone’s permission. Why do we think we have the right to say who can come here?
There’s a long tradition of the people who got here before trying to deny entry to the people trying to get here today. Just because it’s a tradition doesn’t make it right.
There is a difference between securing borders and considering peaceful people who come here without “permission” to be criminals. It’s an administrative function and should not be criminalized, nor should we limit it one bit, except to ensure that they aren’t evading criminal laws from the country they’re leaving.
Besides, it’s clear that we can’t stop the smuggling of people any better than we can stop the smuggling of drugs. There is a market and it will be supplied. All draconian anti-immigration laws do is make it more dangerous to get here and to encourage the slave trade because people are more likely to risk putting themselves into the hands of dangerous men instead of coming here safely.
Dear Sklyer:A government has an obligation to protect and
and defend its citizens.
By allowing illegals to take jobs previously done by poor whites and poor black
American citizens the rich elite are being rulers over the citizens.they give the average citizrn the burden
and they reap the profits.
The cotton kings in the South made riches,yet 150 years later the average guy is paying for welfare,crime and destruction of a good way of life.
Thaverage black guy is trult Fu3ked by this.Who’s going to hire him? Get an East Indian-but he brings his parents and cousins and they go on SSI.Yes,they do!!!!!!
Thanks Greg. You’ve made my case.
What don’t you understand here, Skyler? Illegals undercut wages, don’t pay taxes, bleed the system dry for health care, law enforcement, education and overwhelmingly refuse to assimilate. They destroy jobs, flout innumerable laws and have no respect for us because we let them get away with it. I know this because illegals themselves have told me many times.
Our jails are full of them. Hospitals verge on bankruptcy because they’re required to treat illegals for free. Schools around here are packed with their kids yet precious few have any concept that education is a benefit. I know THAT because teachers tell me illegals are a main reason test scores are so low in districts with a large illegal population.
The LA Times estimated a couple of years back that illegals cost the US upwards of $346 BILLION a year in lost revenues and increased costs for the above mentioned services. Why should they be rewarded for that, Skyler?
They don’t “undercut wages.” They make products less expensive.
They create jobs with the lower wages.
Jails do tend to be full of illegals for various reasons. One is that poorer people tend to be in jail in greater numbers (can’t afford better lawyers, etc.) and because of the drug war that encourages criminal behavior to supply a demand that we have found no way to quench. These have little to do with their “illegal” status and more to do with the drug war.
Wrong again, Skyler. American landscapers, restaurant workers, car wash employees and on and on and on have been put out of work by illegals who charge less and don’t pay taxes. Illegals can do this because they cram into cheap housing (Manasquan cops raided a four-bedroom house a few years back and found 32 people living there. One guy slept under the kitchen table.) and routinely violate our laws to get what they want.
And don’t give me that crap about poor people can’t afford lawyers or that illegals are somehow victims of the drug war. See Mr.s B’s comment about red herrings.
Mexican gangs are the main players in the drug war. They import, murder, kidnap. They are here in the tens of thousands, illegally, driving down drug prices to keep the market alive.
You need to study up on LaRaza and Aztlan before making any more comments on this issue.
I’ll take cheaper products and food at restaurants any day. I’ll gladly return to being a manufacturing engineer if wages in Mexico hadn’t driven so much out of our country by our outrageous wages for unskilled labor.
You see, the cheaper labor will trump any effort to get around it. If you outlaw the cheaper labor here, then the manufacturing will go to where the cheaper labor is legal. It doesn’t matter if you like it or not, that is a fact of economics.
If we have cheaper unskilled manufacturing labor, then we have more factories which produce more jobs for the skilled workers too.
It’s a win-win.
LaRaza and Aztlan will never have a lasting impact so long as the people who come here are happier than they were in Mexico, and generally they are. These are movements largely in California where their politics encourage such organizations.
How about Germany? They still
have a manufacturing base and their workers make more than US workers
Your logic is eighth grade grammer school logic.
Excuse me that I made mistakes in spelling in my previous post.I guess that makes me stupid! Eighth grade logic again.
How about Germany? They still
have a manufacturing base and their workers make more than US workers
Your logic is eighth grade grammer school logic.
Excuse me that I made mistakes in spelling in my previous post.I guess that makes me stupid! Eighth grade logic again.