Quote Of The Day
My Congressman (hopefully my-soon-to-be-EX-Congressman) Rush Holt
The congressman later gets an illegal immigration question. Does he believe the United States should stem the influx of undocumented workers by closing the U.S.-Mexico border?
“Close the border? I’m not exactly sure what that means,” says Holt, triggering a groan in the dwindled crowd.
We know you’re not sure what that means.
Get out and vote, folks!
Morality, Nanny State, People, Politics | Mr. Bingley | 
October 18, 2010 12:06 pm
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What’s wrong with that response? What does it mean to close the border?
First, you can’t really do it. There is way too much commerce that benefits us and Mexico.
Second, you can’t really do it because there are lots of families that travel each way for vacations, and that benefits both the US and Mexico.
Third, you can’t really do it because the border is way to long and it’s impossible to monitor all of it.
Fourth, you can’t really do it because we’re supposed to be a free country and we’re supposed to be allowed to come and go at will. I remember that the USSR’s restrictions on emigration were one of the big complaints of that country’s policies.
So, what does it mean to “close the border?”
It means ‘get control of the border.’ It means every single person who crosses the border has their papers checked. That’s the rule of law and an essential requirement if we are to maintain our sovereignty.
You build a wall. It can be done.
We are a free country, one whose freedoms are acknowledged in the Constitution. Let’s read the Preamble:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Sounds to me that building a wall and controlling the border goes a long way on the tranquility and common defense fronts.
Correlating a desire to gain control of our border in an attempt to staunch the flow of illegal people and drugs into our country with the USSR’s controlling their borders so people couldn’t leave is an impressive twist even for an open-border shill such as yourself. You are to be commended for such gymnastics.
No one is saying citizens can’t come and go, that’s frankly an absurd proposition, but the Government has a duty as laid out in the Preamble to make sure our laws are respected. A country that does not control its borders is not a country.
Like I’ve said before, Mr. Bingley: every soldier is trained to know that unless you secure your perimeter, you don’t have a secure position.
It may not be a safe position, mind you, but being in a position to stop the bad guys is a lot better than just facing north, bending over, and grabbing your ankles. Deterence goes a long ways.
Basic security for home owners: Lock your doors and windows, and the burglars have a harder time getting inside.
Not so easily applied to our borders, but it would be nice if our elected leadership actually, y’know, cared about keeping criminals and terrorists out of the country.
It would help to keep the bad guys on the other side:
Of course, major dad’s “obliterate them where they live” (like the F-18 strike in the Tom Clancy novel) is the most delightful option, but a fairytale in any event.
As for “free country, come and go at will”, duh. What a disingenuous thing to say ~ that’s within OUR borders, right? Or did I read something wrong somewhere? And Skyler, honest to God ~ I just never get where you’re at for letting these guys get here in the first place. How someone who has NO legal standing to be in this country has some nebulous right of ANY kind here in your eyes just blows me away.
Well, Bingley, what was asked was “closing” the border. What you’ve described is not closing it.
If the border is closed, that means US citizens can’t cross it either way.
So the question is still valid. What is meant by closing?
I know drug abusers. No law will keep them from destroying themselves and their families. Even in jail they find ways to get drugs.
All we’ve done with the war on drugs is increase the profit margin for drug dealers and create a violent system that only allows the strongest drug cartels to operate.
Using drug laws to justify border closing is similar to using socialism to justify border closings. Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Of course we should keep out criminal elements. Of course we should defend from violent gangs and even cartel armies. But that does not justify cutting off all commerce and travel between the US and Mexico.
A, Skyler, “closing the border” is like closing the front door of your house, you have to knock for permission to enter if it’s not your house but the owner can come and go as he pleases cause he has the key to the door.
It’s NOT just drug laws, good grief. That’s only PART of the problem. (And you know damn well no one’s cutting off commerce and travel at ALL ~ what a crock!) Is the United States supposed to be borderLESS then? Is that what you’re saying? And then, since the criminal elements do NOT meet with your approval, if we are this freeflowing, borderless utopia, how do you propose we weed those bad guys/keep those bad guys out then?
You don’t make a lick of sense.
I still like my, obliterate them, option.
So do I, major dad.
Skyler, you must be a “Capital L” Libertarian; all that navel gazing philosophy, and not a single practical application. It’s why I prefer “lower case l” libertarians — they have their feet on the ground, and actually make sense.
” (And you know damn well no one’s cutting off commerce and travel at ALL ~ what a crock!)”
Then if we’re not closing the border, I’m back to my original point that we need to define what it means.
I’m not a libertarian.
As long as people are peaceful, we should not care who comes here. The xenophobic attitude that we should treat people as criminals for failing to fully comply with some paperwork for coming here is absurd.
They used to treat the Irish that way too. Wasn’t rigt then. Isn’t right now.
I’m out here sleeping in my bivvy sack on range 212 here in Pendleton and I love being able to have a heartfelt discussion with my coalition of the swilling friends. But my iPhone battery is dying and I need to save it for work. Goodnight all!
Under the stars at Camp Pendleton, what could be better?
(The Irish HAD paperwork and were treated like criminals AFTERWARD.) Schweet dreams, Skyler!
Ah, camping out under the stars! Such memories…..