I’m Sorry, But Unless The Bus Was Loaded With 75 Year Old Ladies…
…I can not see how Dudley Do-Right can say this
(Royal Canadian Mounted Police Sgt. Steve) Cowell said there was no immediate indication of what prompted the attack. He said he didn’t know how many times the victim was stabbed. Witnesses described the weapon as a large butcher-type knife.
Colwell praised the “extraordinary” level-headedness and bravery of the bus driver and passengers.
“What you saw and what you experienced would shake the most seasoned police officer. And yet I’m told that each of you acted swiftly, calmly and bravely in running away like a bunch of little pussies,” Colwell said. “As a result, no one else was injured.”
Ok, maybe I edited that a little bit, and I freely admit that it is easy to armchair quarterback on something like this, but my god, 30+ of you on that bus and no one thought to kick that piece of crap from behind as he was hacking that poor guy? You could have thrown suitcases, books, purses, fire extinguishers; there were tons of things. But you all managed to swiftly, calmy and, oh yes, bravely flee so that beast could continue to butcher that poor man undisturbed.
Morality | Mr. Bingley | 
August 1, 2008 9:18 am
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I whole heartedly agree that a Mother or a family member that shields a child is a hero and I would say 99% of the time they would put themselves in harm’s way to protect a child, they are not who we were talking about. My humble experience is that those most unlikely, the little guy, turns out to be the baddest mofo in the valley in bad situations and woe is the focus of him/her. This is terrible that the press? had to notify the family of this poor soul’s fate. Now that should piss some of you off and rightly so.
Well first off he had a real knife, not a little box cutter. Here in Canada we would not let somone take control of a vehicle with a box cutter. If he had a box cutter I’m sure They would not have had to wait and rally up a group of people to overtake him. As dundee said that’s not a kinke this is a knife. So for all you united states people who say that we are chicken
think about how you were terrorized by little box cutters on sept 11. Imagine if they had a real knife that could really kill somone you gave up your planes with little box cutters.
Big time!!! I have no idea how in the world that the press could have the name before the RCMP got to the family…..I mean he had to have some type of ID on him. With the internet I know that things hit sites like Facebook almost as fast as they happen, but you’d think that if they suspected (but still wanted to confirm) they would have sent someone to the house to ensure that this didn’t happen. I don’t know what the timeframe was before the press arrived though either.
The people ran off the bus are just as quilty as the piece of shit who killed that innocent boy!!!!Don’t make excuses up for yourselves…the kook had his back turned while he was cutting up that poor boy a man should have knocked him out knocked him over the head with a shoe, briefcase, pipe, crow bar…why, why, the human race is a disgrace…..doesn’t the canadian police own a shot gun or machine gun….why let him cut that poor boys body up…….your disgraceful all of you. I wasn’t there, and couldn’t sleep all night after reading this ….no sense of helping others….I die helping someone…I couldn’t live with myself if I did not help…..no excuse.
Why don’t you go to some of the other sites — specifically ctv.ca and actually WATCH some of the very very telling interviews with the people who were there! Caton says he kept thinking about how to get back in and help the victim. They were both at the very BACK of the bus — only one way to get at this guy then — from the front down a narrow aisle. No one was armed except the lunatic. There were people that TRIED to help — you’re not totally informed.
I don’t know what kind of special powers and guns you think the police would have that would be able to see through the metal bus and then shoot the guy!!!!
Folks, I know all the Rambo-gun-mad american shots and the wimpy-beauty-eh-how’s-your-tuque canadian bits are great fun but to me the essential point here boils down to respect for human dignity and your fellow man. I don’t advocate action against this fellow because I want to show what a big stud I am (which I most certainly am not); I advocate it because it’s the right thing to do. Were that your son or husband or wife or daughter in that seat…or you. Wouldn’t you want someone to try and protect you, even if it was merely to protect your body from desecration? And how therefore do you not attempt to protect someone else’s child/husband/son/wife?
Sure, perhaps it can be argued that a ‘good’ thing was done in safely evacuating the bus. But let’s not kid ourselves; they were no safer
Within moments, the bald man noticed the three men watching him and started to move towards the front of the bus. The three men fled, closing the door just as the man reached them. Mr. Caton held the door shut while the driver attempted to use a control panel to close it and the man slashed at them through a remaining crack. “We were telling him, ‘Stay put, stay put, stay there, don’t try to come out,” Mr. Caton said.
But with one strong heave, the man pushed the door open, forcing Mr. Caton and the two others to flee behind the bus. They then worked their way around the far side, glancing underneath to see if they could spot the attacker’s feet on the other side.
At this point there was nothing preventing him from coming outside and chasing down those poor folks like scared sheep and doing what he would to them. But for some unknown reason he decided to go back to attacking poor Mr. McLean’s remains; that’s the only thing that saved everyone outside and allowed those 3 men to bar the door.
Mr. Caton, to his eternal credit, seems to have been the only person who tried to enlist his fellow passengers to go to Mr. McLean’s aid, but no one would help. Sure, a gun would have been useful, but even unarmed they could have knocked him down. Had a few supported him they could have rushed this fellow and knocked him down. Which they would, because the bad guy can’t dodge; they’re going to go plowing in to him. The guy in front would probably get cut, perhaps even killed. But the guys behind wouldn’t have. And when he was down he would be done. So maybe one more passenger gets seriously injured; now, compare to what might have happened had he decided to get off the bus and attack the shocked passengers when there was nothing preventing him from doing it, and the death toll goes much higher. Thank what ever deity you prefer that he decided to stay on the bus and give them a chance to bar him in.
I’ve been working in lower Manhattan for over 20 years, and I’ve commuted in by train, car, boat and bus, and I’ve also been robbed at gunpoint (nothing clarifies the mind like the barrel of a pistol between your shoulder blades, let me assure you), and I will confess that prior to September 11th I probably would have been in the don’t confront/antagonize school of thought. But since then, shit, I love life, every glorious second of it, and I love other people’s lives and I want them to live theirs to the fullest. Post 9/11, I’ve realized that insane assholes like this are going to try and kill us no matter what we do; we can just make it easy for them, and they’ll definitely succeed, or fight back and make it hard, and maybe just maybe they’ll fail.
Kitty, the police arrived on scene after the crime had been committed and everyone (except the killer) was off the bus. With the killer trapped on the bus the police were in a stand off type situation. Their job was to arrest the guy so he could be brought to justice. Had the killer attempted to attack the police (or anyone else) during the stand off they would have been within their rights to take him down as they deemed necessary (ie, shoot to kill). As it turns out they were able to arrest the killer without shooting him first. The role of the police force in Canada is not to deal out justice (ie, they can’t shoot a criminal, no matter how vicious, who poses no immediate threat). The police enforce the law and are required to abide by defined rules of engagement. Justice is served by the courts … you can decide whether or not the sentence ultimately handed out is fair and reasonable.
Americans are so ignorant saying that Canadians are cowards. On sept 11 why did they loose the twin towers cuz they were chicken s**** to do anything. We lost a good canadian when this attack happened but it stopped there not like in new york.
And than YOU for adding nothing rational to the conversation. Do so again and you’re gone.
Mr. Bingley —
while I understand what you are saying – I think Mr. Caton certainly tried to help and it was chaos in the begining. When they were able to get everyone out (and out of the way of the narrow aisle), they tried to board the bus again to try to help, but they realized it was too late. I’m not sure that then putting themselves in the line of attack would have helped matters at that point.
My point being that even if they had done that and then he got off the bus, there would be questions as to why people didn’t just block the door.
Sure, canada girl, by that point their only option was to block the door, and thank god he distracted himself long enough for them to do it.
and thanks for hanging around, btw.
For the most part I’ve found this to be an good debate over what coulda/woulda — so enjoyed the discussion.
Off to bed now — but will leave with this…at the end of the day, it’s horrifing that we have such acts to even debate but I am glad that we both live in countries where we still can.
Peace and God Bless to Tim and his family
Ditto from me.
Amen to that, CG.
As others have noted, you can’t know what you’d do in a situation like that unless you’ve actually faced one. Even people who would be willing to help might need a bit of time to work up to it.
But. The other passengers were not, as the police spokesman labeled them, “brave”. They weren’t cowards either, given the speed of the incident and the fact they didn’t have a duty to get involved in a life-threatening situation. But let’s let words keep their meanings.
I remember reading a study finding that when people are in larger grouops they fail to react to aid a victim. Yet, if they were alone or in a smaller group then they respond. In larger groups they stand back and wait for someone else to do something. This was demonstrated here in the US when a young man and woman were arguing on a bridge in NYC ( I think) and a large crowd stood around and watched her jump off the bridge to her death to escape the beatings of her boyfriend. No ONE Canadian or US citizen helped her. I’m sorry for all involved in this and all acts of violence and I do not know what I would do. Please do not compare this one psycho to 9/11. Our nation is still hurting and yours is hurting now because of this; personally I am sorry for you all
To all of you who think that you could have taken this guy on and succeeded, please note that:
1) He had a “Rambo” style hunting knife, not a kitchen or butcher knife…One swipe at your at your neck and it would be game over for you.
2) He was sitting in the very last row of the bus, his back would have been facing the washroom, so you would have to charge him face to face or from his side, and hope to catch his wrist with 100% accuracy, in a narrow passage way. Only one or two UNARMED passengers could have taken him on at the same time.
3) He’s an Asian immigrant, approximately 5’9″ and 170 pounds and most likely had some basic skills in martial arts.
4) Last, but not least, HE IS PSYCHOTIC and is not afraid of you.
Contrary to popular American opinion, many Canadians own guns especially in that part of our country where hunting is very popular. I doubt that many Americans carry concealed handguns when they travel on a freaking Greyhound bus; and unless you were sitting directly in front of the psycho, firing a gun in such a crammed space could get other people killed (ricochet). On second thought if you have to travel through Manitoba on a Greyhound bus, you probably can’t afford a decent (legal) handgun to begin with.
So unless you happen to be a cross between a Green Beret and Jet Li, approaching this man would be downright STUPID not courageous.
Second degree murder charge?? Wonder if bail will be made?! Surely some bonding co. will step up!
Alright… all you people who are saying ‘Bah, you shoulda just tried to stop him, you were all wussies’… were you there? Let’s see you be in this same situation.
This happens late at night in the middle of no where. People were likely half awake at the time and scared out of their minds. Just because so many of you are pumped up on testosterone that you think you coulda taken him… look at it this way. If you had attacked, maybe you would be the next head. And it only takes one stab wound to kill a person. I am not saying to be selfish, but still, you shouldnt expect people to all be hero’s. It is easy to pretend to be one on the internet, but if you were in this situation, I rather doubt it. It was brave enough of the two drivers and the third guy to hold the guy back inside… someone that insane could have easily smashed open a window and tried to stab them.
Second degree murder charge?? Wonder if bail will be made?! Surely some bonding co. will step up!
I don’t think there are any bail bonds agents/companies in Canada. I think bail in Canada is often lower than in the U.S., but the accused (or their family and friends) have to put it up themselves. Also, a judge in Ontario has told me that courts in Canada are more willing to refuse bail than in the US, and if they think the accused is likely to commit a crime or try to flee, they will often just not allow them bail and keep them locked up until the trail.
Not psycho or insane, just pure evil. Oh, and a Muslim. Draw your own conclusions.
Well to me it is obvious it was premeditated. Why would anyone carry a Rambo style knife for no
reason. Just to look at it? Also why would anyone own a knife like that? Was the pshycho guy a hunter who needs to own knives like that? And all of a sudden begins to stab a fellow passenger. It looks to me he wanted to use it and did.
I came back cause I wanted to read more stupid comments from all the brave people that think they would or even could have charged down the isle, over the seats, through a crowd of people and save this boy and ” blah, blah blah”..
In any Scenario they played out in their minds there has to be a element of ‘super hero’ to have accomplished it.
Like the fantasies little kids play out after the bully smacks them down in the school yard.
“He would have gotten it if only I had of had time to whip my jacket off and showed him the big S on my chest”.. (right?)
It is totally whacked to think given the whole situation, the shock, all of it, that anyone could have or would have done anything different. Even all these ‘super hero’ types..They just ‘wern’t’ there and ‘didn’t’ run towards the exit themselves so they can arm chair quarterback till the cows come home.
Really kind of funny that people truly ‘think’ they are ALL THAT and a bag of chips~!
I’m of the opinion that because some idiot didn’t whip out a gun and start blasting inside the bus or beat others down and crawl over others and create even more chaos into the situation that today we don’t have any other mothers crying over a lost child.
My opinion is that these people did a great job of dealing with the unthinkable, the unimaginable in the middle of the shocking reality of it.