DADT
Well, here we go.
I think everyone who shares Swilling space knows major dad and I are pretty socially “liberal” in many ways, including believing that gay couples have a right to civil unions. “Marriage”, on the other hand, is for each and every individual religious institution to decide whose union it will and will not consecrate, and that is ABSOLUTELY their right, per the tenents of the beliefs. PERIOD. (We were married by a lovely lady at the Santa Ana court house, and I would no more storm the local Catholic Church demanding a full blown “Say Yes to the Dress” wedding, than I would endorse a gay couple suing to be able to do the same. It’s called “Freedom of Religion/Separation of Church and State”. Go see Miss Peters at the Courthouse, like we did.)
I’ll speak just for me on this, though, since the male side of the house is different, and I will speak from a Woman Marine perspective. Kcruella and I ~ or any WM for that matter ~ can tell you there’re plenty of lesbians in the Marine Corps. We’ve always managed to get along well, but there’s a particularly nasty side that has me concerned about how it will be handled going forward. In all honesty, I don’t even know if it’s still problem, but it was, both Navy and Marine Corps-wise, in the 80’s.
In Memphis, where we went to our follow-on schools after bootcamp, most of the WM’s were 18 or so. The ratio of males to females at the time was 65 to 1. If you eliminated the female sailors and just used women Marines, it became 85 to 1. Many of the girls were overwhelmed by the attention and there was a lesbian…jeez, I hate to say it, but almost pack mentality. Lesbian gangs are not just a figment of “The Man Show” ~ they preyed on these younger, insecure girls. In some cases, especially if harrassment had been rebuffed or, God forbid, reported, it got violent. We were a level headed group of older WM’s, both gay and straight, in barracks leadership while I was there, and able to keep things running without blood spilling, but that definately wasn’t the case at the WAVE barracks. And it apparently hadn’t been the case previously with past WM NCO’s. Be damned if anyone was getting hurt for anything on MY watch, but I was 25 years old, NOT 18 ~ easy to be an authority figure, if one’s up for it and I’m an attention whore.
So, my first concern, from a female point of view is: what happens now? This may be moot anyway, because WM’s go through exponentially more now than we ever conceived of. Possibly their confidence level may be such that they’d kick someone’s ass who threatened them. But those lesbians are also in that Crucible and also in that frame of mind. What is happening in the barracks? Is the threat condition the same and, if so, how will the corrective action change?
I’m also wondering about everyday living conditions. Kcruella and I’d always roll our eyes at the guys when someone’d get all up in arms about “no Goddamned fuckin’ gays in MY Marine Corps!”, while bragging about the 12 year old he shagged in the Philippines. As major dad always tells them, “Oh gays are terrible, but being a child molestor is okay.”
Anyway. Hey, nimrod ~ they’re already here, God bless them. Have always been, so grow the f*ck up. The gay guy who joins the Marine Corps doesn’t wear spandex tucked into his KISS boots while prancing down the hallway. And Kcruella and I are rolling OUR eyes, because WM’s KNOW when we have a lesbian walk in the shower while we’re there. We’ve lived with that for YEARS and everyone’s survived. Uncomfortable at times? Oh, you betcha. But that’s because we KNOW. What I want to know is how the sensitivity training is going to be slanted ~ and you know it’s coming. There has to be balance in the mix or it will be an unmitigated disaster. Are we going to be forced to kowtow to a complete gay “special status” agenda, or are they STILL going to be integrated into the Marine Corps as Marines? Can we PLEASE have an acknowledgement that communal showering with a butch haired, tattooed, bemuscled lesbian who outweighs me by 80 pounds and asks me to scrub her back because the new tattoo is scabby and itches makes me uncomfortable, and GODDAMN IT, THAT’S MY RIGHT, TOO?!?!?! (YES. True story. I begged off, got a towel and found her a “friend” to handle the loofa.)
When I was pregnant with Ebola, Kcruella threw me a delightful baby shower at our humble condo. After all the games, cake, etc., the eight or so of us ~ all Women Marines ~ were sitting around the table when someone kinda laughed and said, “Hey! You know what?”
We’re all, like, “What?”
“This is all the straight WM’s we know!”
We were all laughing then.
Military Thingies | tree hugging sister | 
December 1, 2010 12:14 pm
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I don’t think we will stop accomplishing our mission because there are open homosexuals in our ranks. The world will not end.
The problem is that this is a symptom of our decline, not a cause.
“Special status” or “full integration”? Depends on what’s best for the activists lawyers and the usual agitators.
Common knowledge that the Marines have a great many gays and lesbians. If a Yojimbo knows it how secret can it be.
Unfortunately, that lesbian pack mentality was present in the Army as far back as 1981. I didn’t have personal experiences with it, but there was a lot of problems with the female barracks on our kaserne.
But, on the whole, I agree, get over it, dudes. Gays and lesbians have ALWAYS been in the military.
(Sis, you might be amused to hear the comment of one National Guard soldier, back in the 1990’s, when the incoming Governor was debating this question: “Well, you guys will finally know what it’s like to have your a$$ stared at!”)
My concern is what Yojimbo points out: is this full admission to the ranks, or yet another case of social engineering combined with perpetual victimhood?
This may be the real problem with the troops supporting DADT. Because, frankly, the odds favor the social engineering/victimhood scenario, and we all know how that usually turns out.
The reports make it quite clear that the working groups recommend repealing DADT so long as all of the other recommendations are also followed. One of those critical recommendations is that sexual orientation must NOT be given any special status and flat out states that moral and religious objections to homosexuality must continue to be respected. The flip side of that coin is that straight service members are going to have to work with and respect gay soldiers who handle themselves and their job with the same professionalism as everyone else. If Congress starts cherry-picking recommendations this could go South in a hurry.
Interesting perspective about the lesbian pack mentality. I never heard of that in the army and the one lesbian soldier I know from that era says she never saw it and she was surprised to hear about it in the Marine Corps. This was pre-DADT even and she remembers having to be very careful or it was out you go.
If I recall correctly, the situation in Memphis Navy Barracks got so bad for the female sailors they had to remove the doors from the rooms. And as for sensitivity training, I hope to goodness it is better than what we had to sit thru after Tailhook.
Navy folks weren’t the only ones subject to sensitivity training after Tailhook. I had to sit through a briefing at my Air Guard base where I was treated like a 13 year old. “Now SSGT Spider, you can’t touch the heinie and you can’t tell Amn Jill that she has the skills to pay da bills.” I am glad they are attempting to respect people who have issues with the policy. My concern was that the promotions of NCOs and officers would be dependent on how well they pushed the program. Hopefully a live and let live attitude won’t hurt your career. Also, MWR activities like the BX and NCO clubs celebrate the holidays of various groups (Black history month, Women’s history month, hispanic, asian-pacific etc.) Are there going to be Gay Pride Month posters hanging in the commissary every June? That should be a converstion starter with the kids.
I just had another thought (two in one day!). If the military takes this milder approach will the gay activists be happy? These are some pretty militant SOBs, just ask Mormons in California or anyone who was outed for donating money to Prop 8.
Well, IMHO this could be a real shit story if they don’t do it right. One thing they haven’t mentioned is the UCMJ, “penetration however slight…” the rules on sodomy are pretty clear so when they gonna change them? And those rules go for male and female BTW. So I want to see the first high ranking official, I’m talking you Gates and Mullen, have the stones to say “blow jobs ,oral sex and backdoor action are all good to go now” carry on.
That would be an interesting policy letter, Major Dad!
To read, not to write.