Good Old CAIR ~ Champion of the Tortured, Downtrodden
…and bacon-free.
…A customer’s personal preferences is usually not a factor in deciding whether a religious practice is protected in the workplace, noted Khadija Athman, national civil rights manager for the Council on American-Islamic Relations in Washington.
The customer in question would be the poor soul standing in line at TARGET. Wrapped up in her traditional Muslim garb, the CHECKOUT GIRL scans the customer’s eggs along with her milk ~ everything right up to that filthy package of….BACON. Which the TARGET EMPLOYEE REFUSES to TOUCH. Another checker has to be called over to perform the scan and voilá; all is right with the world. The Minnesota Muslim world. Not the customer whose purchases are paying the tab to hire this person and who just got dissed. Maybe even hugely inconvenienced if the store is busy and a stunt double cashier isn’t readily available, not to mention the fact that said checker’s actions publicly declared part of her humble order was unclean and unfit to be touched.
We’re supposed to be understanding…
…He [Dr. Shah Khan, a spokesman for the Islamic Center of Minnesota in Fridley] urged people to remember the extraordinary adjustments many Somalis have made in coming to the Twin Cities. “Many of these people are refugees. They may have been tortured. And they came here having never held a book in English,” he said. “They’re already adapting to our society. We need to adapt to them, too.”
…but damned if I don’t think Dr. Khan has it ass backwards. I know life sucks there. I watch the news. And, bless their hearts, they made it here. BUT. “The extraordinary adjustments…made in coming“? Were they forced to come here? I’m sure no one’s torturing them in St. Paul and the difference should be readily apparent. WE need to adapt to THEM? I think not. We need to show compassion, offer support and get them locked into truth, justice and the American way ~ which will reward them quite handsomely, as I’m more than sure they’re aware ~ but they don’t get to change sh*t up to suit THEM on top of a piece of that big apple pie. I’m so, SO sick of this. Just sick.
I’ve got half a mind to let Target know how I feel. So, everyone lament at Dave’s, ’cause he gets to experience this crap first hand and thank Ken for finding Dave’s post first.
F*ck the American consumer and the right to buy bacon free of hinderance.
Jeez. I’m just gobschmacked.
UPDATE: Big duke ’em outs going on about this on the MN Buzz board, but DANG if I can’t help myself cherry picking one of the comments ~ it’s a dhimmi classic.
Her religion is first and foremost.
Let’s not loose our cool over a piece of meat, and get all bend out of shape over it. When you open your doors to group of people you don’t share much with, there is bound to be some culture/religion clashes. If Target doesn’t have a problem with this system, you as the customer shouldn’t either. Everyone came to America one way or another, so instead of telling the Muslims to go back to their countries why don’t you simply go to another store. And PLEASE, do not beat the patriotic drum for us, it will only fall into a deaf ear.
Someone seems confused by the whole concept of ‘retail’. The store doesn’t dictate to customers what they can expect from customer service and if customers go away, so does the store.
I’m really feeling cranky now.
Humanity...or the Lack Thereof | tree hugging sister | 
March 15, 2007 2:30 pm
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The thing that got to me THS, was that customer actually went ahead and scanned the bacon and put it in the bag for the cashier. Being tolerant is one thing, acting like a dhimmi is entirely another, and it seems to me that woman acted more like the latter. Uh-uh, not me.
just read your update…”If Target doesn’t have a problem with this system, you as the customer shouldn’t either”.
Somebody at the Strib has clearly edited this. I believe the original was: “Baaa, If Target doesn’t have a problem baaa with this system baaa, you as the customer baaa shouldn’t either baaa”.
Dumbass.
And hello ~ this isn’t Abdullah’s bodega where you would expect to find goat and not bacon, and you know that going in. It’s TARGET, where one expects to find just about anything in the world and be able to purchase it in a friendly and efficient manner. I think they blew this ‘out they butt’, PR wise.
Bless your heart, Dave. I dunno how you don’t have a stroke over the morning paper every single day up there.
If nothing else, it’s a wealth of material. I’m sensing a change though. Between the taxi issue and this kind of stuff, the old “don’t make waves/Minnesota politeness” is being replaced by a growing backlash. I get the feeling that more and more people have had enough of this foolishness.
Thanks for the link too.
And, as Ebola just pointed out to me, what happens when she’s working the midnight shift and there ARE no stunt doubles?
(Oh, you’re more than welcome, dear friend. I live to serve, you know. {8^P.)
Let us do some bible study here, are you in you religion allowed to eat or even touch the swine (pork)???
Que? I’m not sure where you’re coming from with that, Elimosa. (And welcome, by the way!)
Should we cue Pulp Fiction?
Vincent: Ah, so by that rationale, if a pig had a better personality, he would cease to be a filthy animal. Is that true?
Jules: Well we’d have to be talkin’ about one charmin’ motherf*&#@’ pig. I mean he’d have to be ten times more charmin’ than that Arnold on Green Acres, you know what I’m sayin’?
Eli, you’re making some assumptions here, methinks. First off, you have no clue what THS’ religious affiliation is, if any. Second, let’s assume, for argument’s sake, that she is a christian. That means her religious instructions come out of the New Testament, which means “More Park’s Sausages Mom…please“. Thirdly, you’re assuming that one’s religious affiliation should trump one’s public and social obligations. In America that simply is not so. You may worship mostly as you wish, but you MAY NOT impose your religious beliefs on others, and that is exactly what these folks are trying to do.
I happen to be a christian, and I can wash down my meal of raw oysters and bacon bits with some nice icy vodka if I so wish (and I do so wish) and I don’t have to go lop off someone’s head to make it up to Jesus.
Bottom Line:
If your beliefs interfere with the timely and efficient execution of your job, GET ANOTHER JOB! (or get a better religion!)
And these are the same whiners that pitch a fit when a Christian refuses to sell the morning after pill.
Actually Abnjm, they’re only letting Target know why they’re going to go out of business. I stopped shopping there when they kicked the Salvation army off their premises.
I don’t think that there are enough muslims around to support Target in the manner to which they’ve become accustomed. They need to tread carefully. You notice that I didn’t use the term cairfully.
BTW, I love that trichinosis free bacon. The fact that a certain religion can’t grow any is their problem.
Exactly, Mike.
Abnjm-The point is the CUSTOMER holds the power of the purse. Retailers can choose to accommodate their employees any way they see fit so long as they don’t put the burden on the customer. When they do, those customers will tend to go away to another retailer who doesn’t put burdens on them, and smart retailers will remove the burden or they know they will go away too. It’s not that complicated.
And no, most of us aren’t sheeple yet.
Well, what if everybody went to targut, bought nothing but piggy products, find the muslim checker, throw all the piggy products on conveyor to be scanned and when this muslim won’t check you out, walk away and leave the store to put the piggy products back. When they get all the piggy products put back, send in the next piggy product buyer! Problem will be solved in, oh I’d say, half a day!
Since somewhere between 10 and 30% of THEM would rejoice in my death, I have no tolerance for their crap (like the flying Imams). NONE. They are here for one reason only, to gain a toehold for the Caliphate.
I will always treat Muslims with respect. I will hold the door the the lady in the hijab, all common courtesies to the men in all situations.
But once they disrespect me, my country, my culture, the rules change. I can’t wait to baptize a cab with a half pint of Popov Vodka…
This is beyond silly. The devout female muslim should work in a story where there are no haram products. Maybe they could take a hint from kosher merchants and open their own stores, eh?
And no, I am not being sarcastic.
Note to Swillers: Always trust someone who puts eh? in a comment.
It just is.
Our family cook(very devout)in Cairo made BLT’s for us regularly because it was easy and quick. He just washed his hands seven times after handling it. No big whoop! He didn’t have to wash after handling the container, just when he touched the meat.
Nice DAK canned bacon was available from the Greek and Copt run shops in town, but peanut butter was almost impossible to find ;}
Seems like a reasonable fellow, TB.
I’m reminded of those people who used to deliberately sit in smoking sections and demand that people around them stop smoking.
Guys, are you arguing from religious pespective or secular perspective. If it is from the religious perspective PORK, PIG, SWINE is forbidden in the OLD TESTAMENT priod
Here are some verses about that, and stop mast-tur-bating your brains about this issue, because it is an issue of belief.
chapter 11, v. 7, it is recorded that God declares the pig to be unclean for believers. Then, in verse 8, God says: “You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you”. This command is repeated in Deuteronomy 14:7-8. Then, in Isaiah 65:2-4, and 66:17, God issues a stern warning against those who eat pork.
If the person on the cashier was a jew we would not be having this discussion because we will all labeled as anit-semitic.
“If the person on the cashier was a jew we would not be having this discussion because we will all labeled as anit-semitic.”
Once again since you ignored it the first time:
If your beliefs interfere with the timely and efficient execution of your job, GET ANOTHER JOB! (or get a better religion!)
Read it, learn it, live it.
PS, stick your religious red herring where the good Lord split you.
Elimosa, you are simply wrong. In your first post you talk about ‘bible study’. the bible is the the holy book of the christians, and it contains the New testament as well as the old. in the new testament jesus sets his believers free from the rigid legalistic interpretation of the old laws which are contained in the old testament as you point out, because one’s salvation is not achieved by exactly following laws; it is achieved by the grace of god. we are all sinners and no amount of works, no matter how exactly in compliance with scripture they are, will save us. we can not ‘earn’ our salvation and entrance into heaven; it has been earned for us by christ’s sacrifice on the cross.
the old testament that you quote from is part of both the christian bible as we have seen and the torah which are the holy books of judaism. with regard to those of the jewish faith there are two points at work here. first, most jews would have no problem handling pork in the manner described in the article. they of course might not eat it but handling a pound of bacon that is sealed in plastic would not count as ‘touching the carcass’ to the majority of jews that i know, i can assure you. second, if they are observant orthodox jews then i can most definitely tell you that they would not take the job at target in the first place and would NEVER seek to impose their religious practices on someone else. the orthodox are the people who are most respectful of other’s views, which is why they tend to live and work amongst themselves and have dealings with others only in religious neutral settings.
What’s really funny is bacon is so hermetically sealed these days that it’s practically impossible to get the package open. And as for being able to reseal the shredded package to preserve the rest of your bacon — forget it, if you didn’t buy large ziploc bags then look forward to trying to cook the shrivelled, dried pieces the next day.
Oh, and “elimosa” is an asshole troll. One of those who regularly roams the internet with half a paragraph of badly-digested fifth-hand pseudoknowledge of the Bible in his rotting cranium. Not worth engaging, IMHO.
If target has any intention of staying in business they better get their employees to act as just that an employee and by they way around Christmas target caved on selling Che gear on-line, the point to that being they are a business and when the buying public starts to get in their face they will cave. That my friends is the beauty of the free market system otherwise known as America where cash is king and credit is the kingdom.
Matt. 5:17-19. “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. “For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.”
(Mt.5:17-19) “Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
Where did Jesus say that you are free of the law??? Obviously you are listening to a different Jesus my dear.
According to Jesus also “For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.” Matt 5:20. That means you won’t enter Paradise until you are better than a Jew. Means until you are circumcised and you don’t eat pork after you believe only in One GOD not in three in one, and by the way 1+1+1=3 but 1=1, plus keeping all the commandment. Now Paul told you it is fine to throw the commandments on the back seat and do whatever you want, Jesus will pick up the tabe for you, you can sin as want buffet, and Jesus will pay, on the Cross! For example, you Should not be circumcised got it wrong and put you at disadventage, because if you really want to follow Jesus footsteps, you should be circumcised on the eight day as he was… Too late for you my sweet guy! Luke 2:21 “And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb”
I intetionally ignor some ignorants, not worth replying to begots. I don’t feel I am loved as Jesus command you to do… LOVE did you forget that you should love everybody even your ENEMY! and your enemy is the one you create… 🙂
Matt. 5:17-19. “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. “For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.”
(Mt.5:17-19) “Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”
Where did Jesus say that you are free of the law??? Obviously you are listening to a different Jesus my dear.
According to Jesus also “For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.” Matt 5:20. That means you won’t enter Paradise until you are better than a Jew. Means until you are circumcised and you don’t eat pork after you believe only in One GOD not in three in one, and by the way 1+1+1=3 but 1=1, plus keeping all the commandment. Now Paul told you it is fine to throw the commandments on the back seat and do whatever you want, Jesus will pick up the tabe for you, you can sin as want buffet, and Jesus will pay, on the Cross! For example, you Should not be circumcised got it wrong and put you at disadventage, because if you really want to follow Jesus footsteps, you should be circumcised on the eight day as he was… Too late for you my sweet guy! Luke 2:21 “And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb”
I intetionally ignor some ignorants, not worth replying to begots. I don’t feel I am loved as Jesus command you to do… LOVE did you forget that you should love everybody even your ENEMY! and your enemy is the one you create… 🙂
elimosa, while this sideshow is somewhat entertaining let’s not forget that the point of this whole discussion is that people who work in a public store or who work for a public entity (like cab drivers in minneapolis) MAY NOT impose their religious beliefs on others. full stop.
now, with regard to the matthew you are quoting you will find a good discussion of it and how the old testament ‘laws’ apply to christians here. I’d also point you to Mark 7 where Jesus addresses the old testament dietary rules.
christians aren’t concerned about being ‘better than jews’ at strictly following laws, for ours is not a legalistic religion. the bible is full of examples where jesus points out the folly of those who follow the strict letter of the law but ignore its spirit. i can give you an example from my own life this weekend: we had snow, and i am required by law to shovel the sidewalk in front of my house so that the people who never walk there won’t slip, but that’s a pain in the ass. so i shovelled a very thin 5 inch wide path. i complied with the letter of the law (so i won’t get a ticket) but i have completely disobeyed the spirit of the law. Now which do you think is more important, the letter or the spirit? judaism and islam are very legalistic and you have very smart people giving precise instructions on how every letter of the law is to be strictly applied in specific situations…which creates lots of loopholes for people to exploit which they do while loudly proclaiming how they ‘keep’ the law.
Just like the pharisees on the street corner.
The rest of what you wrote is gibberish.
We could also reasonably point out that Jesus himself did all sorts of things that would make one ritually impure according to the Mosaic Law – and that according to the cholo-logic on display here, He Himself would not be saved.
The answer is that Jesus fulfilled the law, and therefore spared us the futility of trying to fulfill the law ourselves and thus earn ourselves into the Kingdom. “For our sake He [God] made Him [Christ] to be win who did not know sin, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” (2 Corinthians 5:21)
As for St. Paul – he was a Pharisee himself, and should know the difference between righteousness by law and salvation by Christ.
Regarding our topic at hand – render unto Target what is Target’s, and unto God what is God’s. If one precludes the other in one’s conscience, then one must choose, for one cannot serve two masters.
mmmmmmmmmm……..bacon!
Mr. Bingley, It is amazing how you like to avoide the clear text in your bible in order to fulfill the needs of your desires. Everything Jesus did has a reason but you guys always try to explaine it by the spirit. The spirit of this and the spirit of that. I wonder how the clear text of the exact word of jesus are easily dismissed just by a mere speculation about something that no christian is sure of but have a blind faith in. Jesus did not die for your sins my dear, he did not die period. He is alive and when he comes back you will know it. The rightousness of the rightous is upon him and the wickidness of the wickid shall upon him. The son shall not bear the inequity of the father, neither the father shall bear the inequity of the son. All these things that are said and repeted by Jesus himself, are dismissed by the theologians in order to justify their shortcoming in fulfilling the law. The advocate for the spirint and they dismiss all the what jesus taught.
No one can be tried for somebody else’s crime, what kind of blood thirsty God who according to you interpretation will kill an innocent sinless man and let the criminal sinfull on the loose!!!
Forget the bacon and focus on the bigger picture on which both your existence and salvation depend.
No one can carry somebody else’s sin. Stop fooling yourself my dear.
Ciao
I by the way enjoy the discussion with you, you seem to be an open minded person, unlike the others!
Whew. All that righteousness makes me nervous. And you’re pretty quick to say ‘dismissive’. I don’t see Bingley dismissing anything. Christians study and Jesus was a teacher. As for a couple of your other points, let me just add my Druidic interpretation of things. First, Jesus. Died. It says so in scripture and, I believe, the Roman records of the day. His death is historic FACT. ‘Crucified, died and was buried’, then ROSE again. Pretty straightforward there. And pretty much the whole case for being ‘the Son of God’. And also why Mohammed is still just a prophet.
As for his ‘exact’ words, that would be kinda difficult since the Gospels as we know them weren’t actually committed to paper for a couple hundred years after Jesus died. And there are different translations of the ancient languages both as a matter of difficulty and multiple meanings per archaic word/grammatical phrase and the fact that, like any work of great power, it’s meaning can be manipulated (innocently or not) during translations. Plus human beings can’t play ‘telephone’ and keep the exact words straight through a half dozen people, less mind centuries. But the SPIRIT of everything Jesus stood for and preached shines through it.
Don’t fall down, but it looks like reason has won out, at least for now:
http://www.startribune.com/535/story/1061103.html
elimosa,
Your comments are interesting and I respect the effort you have put into them. However, I disagree with the following:”I wonder how the clear text of the exact word of jesus are easily dismissed just by a mere speculation about something that no christian is sure of but have a blind faith in. Jesus did not die for your sins my dear, he did not die period.”
“Blind faith” is what Christ asked for, even in the face of contrary evidence. Christians believe that we are justified (i.e. made right) by faith alone because of our innate human sin. Everyone who has ever lived has fallen short of the Law in some way, because humans are flawed and weak. We are all condemned by our own actions.
Jesus’ death on the cross was real. He was fully human and fully divine, a paradox that logic cannot encompass. He chose to die for us in order to fulfill the conditions of the Hebrew law and allow a new dispensation. You are right that no mere human can carry my sin for me but Jesus, the Son, who willingly gave himself up for me, can. And my gratitude for this enormous gift is what makes me a Christian.