“Veils Suck”
Salmon Rushdie, again I salute you, Sir
The row over Muslim women’s dress codes reignited today after author Salman Rushdie declared that “veils suck”.
Rushdie, whose book The Satanic Verses triggered death threats from Islamic clerics, gave his full backing to Leader of the Commons Jack Straw for raising the issue.
Rushdie was forced into hiding for 10 years after Iranian cleric Ayatollah Khomeini served a “fatwah” on him over his book’s alleged slight on the prophet Mohammed.
…”Speaking as somebody with three sisters and a very largely female Muslim family, there’s not a single woman I know in my family or in their friends who would have accepted wearing the veil.
“I think the battle against the veil has been a long and continuing battle against the limitation of women, so in that sense I’m completely on [Straw’s] side.
“He was expressing an important opinion, which is that veils suck, which they do. I think the veil is a way of taking power away from women.”
Mr Straw triggered anger last week when he revealed he asked Muslim women visiting his constituency surgery to remove their veils.
He said that seeing someone’s face made it easier to communicate and felt the garment was a barrier to integration and good community relations.
While Straw is right about that, that aspect is really secondary; the real problem with the veil is that it subjugates the women and consigns them to second-class status. That is simply unacceptable in the modern world.
Morality | Mr. Bingley | 
October 10, 2006 6:46 am
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I think ‘subjugates’ is a bit strong. Yes, it can be used for that purpose, but it is also a cultural item at times.
I know that even here in the US, women wore veils in Catholic churches until about 30 years ago. My mom wore them, and my grandmother wore them, and generations of Portuguese women wore them as well.
Was Jackie Kennedy subjugated when wearing her veil at JFK’s funeral?
If a woman is raised wearing veils, and is suddenly forced to unveil in front of a very powerful man like Straw, I can imagine it could be a bit disconcerting.
Having said all that. I agree with Straw. It puts him at quite a disadvantage to negotiate with people who can see his face but he can’t see theirs. Part of equality is to be equally treated, not because one is subjugated, but out of a desire to be polite in our culture.
until about 30 years ago.
Point one. Point two:
IN church, for one hour one day a week.
Did Jackie freely remove her veil after the funeral? Were there any strictures against its removal or punishments to be meted out if she did so?
When it’s wearing is a REQUIRED element of your LIFE ~ that’s subjugation.
Jackie was at the funeral of her husband whose brains ended up in her lap.
How many 15 year old girls wore them in church 30 years ago.
Or 80, for that matter.
Of course it is a cultural thing: a culture that tells women that they are so perniciously evil and tempting that the mere sight of a face, or god forbid an ankle, is enough to corrupt the purest heart of a man and lead him astray.
Alright, well maybe 80 years ago alot of women did wear veils to church, but they didn’t wear them anywhere else.
Sis pointed out to me that she wore a veil on sundays 80 years ago.
No, after “BITE ME !!” what I actually said was “you should like check with someone who has a catholic clue before you shoots your church of england mouth off”.
Infidel pig dog.
Church of England???
Hell no, foul Jezebel!
Church of Scotland.
Y’all are just apples off of the Papist tree to me.
Us Presbyterians ain’t no fruit off that there tree!
Absolutely, enforced wearing of anything is anethema to freedom. But this was a free woman in Britain, so the enforced part didn’t apply. She wore it freely.
So, if she wants to wear the face obscuring veil for her own personal reasons, fine. But Straw was perfectly just in asking her to remove it in his house, because that’s his culture.
Thirty years ago, only the older women wore veils in Catholic churches, but forty years ago, if I’m not mistaken (it might have been a few years earlier), it was required, hence the veil on Jackie Onasis at JFK’s funeral.
Not veils exclusively but head covering of some sort. (I hearken back to the lace doily yamulka looking gourd cover of my youth.) And I understand the custom came about (thanks to a religion class in my junior year in H.S.) because of an edict from a 16th Century Bishop/Cardinal/whatever. Tired of the men at Mass being so distracted by the exorbitant feminine hair styles of the age, he ordered the wimmens to cover that sh*t up when in the House of God, now PAY ATTENTION. It just sort of morphed into ‘covered to show respect/modesty/blahblahblah’ over the centuries.
But I still think you’re completely off your nut, there Mike. It’s use is completely to subjugate women ~ COMPLETELY. In this century or the last five. The wearing of head coverings in the Catholic Church was NEVER about control. NEVER.
And you’d never read something like this about Catholic attitudes toward women ~ this century or any other ~ either. Ask yourself “what would Jesus do?” and the answer SURE isn’t “say sh*t like this.*”
**You’ll notice it’s always a minor female.
*** Old Muhammed was a pedophile, even in the context of the day.
That’s THIS century subjugation, from a this century website explaining the role of women in Islam and comparing it pretty creatively to the role of Christian women. (He quotes a whole bundle of Old Testament stuff to bolster his arguments, further proof that Islam is a stone age relic.)
To give the author credit, he does have a problem with the child abuse end of it, but pretty much toes the company line for the whole page.
I don’t have any problem with women wearing the headscarf (hijab). In Western culture, however, covering your face (niquab) is sinister and creepy. If I went to Saudi Arabia (not that I ever would, because I couldn’t bring a Bible or move about freely), I would at least wear long skirts and sleeves so as not to offend the prevalent culture. Those who come to the West should do the same. I will not talk to someone who is hiding her face from me. Perhaps that is the point.
But THS, she’s not in a Taliban controlled country, she’s in Merry Olde England. She is not oppressed, she is free. If she wishes to wear a hijab, veil, burka, or tassles on her ta tas, that’s her choice in life. It’s fair to recognize that just as the Catholic church got willing compliance with that stupid veil from women, so the Islamics probably have a majority of their believers willingly wearing one. It’s easy to believe this because no one is making them do it when they’re in England. So, it’s not just about subjugation anymore than you were subjugated by the Catholic church.
All that being said, there’s a time and a place for everything and in my house, women don’t wear burkhas or veils because that is the custom in my house. Hmm. I wonder how far I can extend that rule!
But THS, she’s not in a Taliban controlled country, she’s in Merry Olde England. She is not oppressed, she is free. If she wishes to wear a hijab, veil, burka, or tassles on her ta tas, that’s her choice in life. It’s fair to recognize that just as the Catholic church got willing compliance with that stupid veil from women, so the Islamics probably have a majority of their believers willingly wearing one. It’s easy to believe this because no one is making them do it when they’re in England. So, it’s not just about subjugation anymore than you were subjugated by the Catholic church.
All that being said, there’s a time and a place for everything and in my house, women don’t wear burkhas or veils because that is the custom in my house. Hmm. I wonder how far I can extend that rule!
But THS, she’s not in a Taliban controlled country, she’s in Merry Olde England. She is not oppressed, she is free. If she wishes to wear a hijab, veil, burka, or tassles on her ta tas, that’s her choice in life. It’s fair to recognize that just as the Catholic church got willing compliance with that stupid veil from women, so the Islamics probably have a majority of their believers willingly wearing one. It’s easy to believe this because no one is making them do it when they’re in England. So, it’s not just about subjugation anymore than you were subjugated by the Catholic church.
All that being said, there’s a time and a place for everything and in my house, women don’t wear burkhas or veils because that is the custom in my house. Hmm. I wonder how far I can extend that rule!